So, I traded in my GameCube yesterday for an XBox...

[Gdrlv]

I've been pretty down on the XBox since it came out, but my GameCube had been sitting gathering dust for way too long. Also, I'd been wanting to play KOTOR. I almost just bought an XBox, but I've got no reason to have all three systems (PS2 has always been my most-played system). So, I packed up my GameCube and the four games I still owned and trudged off to GameStop.

I was fairly shocked when they told me that they only gave $60 for used GameCubes (even more shocked that they sell 'em for $85). The GameStop employee told me there's virtually no demand for them anymore and that they had more used GameCubes in the back than XBoxes and PS2s combined.

I visit the videogame forum every once in a while and know people here get pissed when people start forecasting gloom and doom for Nintendo. Hell, so did I. I used to love Nintendo, and I wanted to love my GameCube. However, my experience at GameStop yesterday convinced me that my disappointment with Nintendo is not odd or unusual. For a next generation system to be sold used for $85 at this stage blows my mind. Even more telling is that GameStop can't sell them at that price.

On the bright side, I had a blast with KOTOR yesterday afternoon. Also picked up Jet Set Radio Future/Sega GT 2002 for $5.99. JSRF is incredibly fun as well, and all in 5.1 sound as well. Wish I would've picked up an XBox sooner...

[PixyJunket]

While there are some exciting things happening in the video game world, at the same time we are riding the peak of it's darkest hour..

[goLUCKY]

Welcome to the club ;)

[Groucho]

There's room in my home for both consoles.

[evenflow]

:up: Welcome to the Dark Side.

[Apocrypha]

It all started when Sega sold it's soul to SONY,MS by axing the DREAMCAST.

[s}{ammer]

congrats on the purchase, plenty of good games out there to keep you busy when you are done with KOTOR. I have now played KOTOR about 30 hours and this has got to be the most time I have ever logged on an RPG. You might want to check out Buffy if you get a chance, that is a great game.

[PixyJunket]

Originally posted by Apocrypha
It all started when Sega sold it's soul to SONY,MS by axing the DREAMCAST. They didn't sell their soul, it was beaten and picked at by corporate takeovers.

[Josh H]

I'm happy I bought an X-box, but there's no way I'd have traded my GC for it (or my PS2 for that matter). There's simply several exclusives on each system that I really want to play in the future.

Trading my GC would mean no Link in SC2, no Mario Kart, the next Zelda, the next Mario, Metroid Prime 2, F-zero, etc. all of which should be out in the next year or two.

[jekbrown]

my gc is a dustcollector too. Only thing i play on it is RE0 and a little Super Monkey Ball (when the gf is over). I'll keep it, and prolly clean up on close-out sales of games and stuff... like every1 did with the DC...but the system has been another nintendo disappointment. Im not console bashing or whatever, Ive just been disappointed with Ninny consoles fron N64 onward. :(

j

[Groucho]

Maybe if you guys tried playing more than a couple games on your cube you'd enjoy it more. This is the reverse of the thread where the guy was slamming the Xbox after playing one game.

[xmiyux]

My GC is also just collecting dust but i can't quite yet bring myself to sell/trade it in. I think it is because of the low demand and i wouldn't get that much for it and it would make me a little sad to admit my disappointment in it.

Now games on the other hand i've slowly been selling/trading off - i just wish i could find someone who would give me a decent price for Metroid Prime or at least trade me a decent Xbox game for it. I played it for like 3 hours and couldn't get into it. Hrm.

As for Buffy i keep trying to find the old Buffy for cheap somewhere used and might be enticed to buy the new one later this month - they both look good.

[trigun]

I'm not big on trading in used systems. The ability to play a console exclusive game is worth more to me than the measly $ EB or Gamestop shells out.

I laugh when I think about my friends that traded their SNES or Genesis consoles along with copies of FF2+3, Chrono Trigger, Secret of Mana, Phantasy Star, etc. for some small amount of credit for a Playstation.

I like being able to dig out the old NES and pop in a copy of SMB3, Metroid, or Zelda when I get the urge. I'm sure that years from now, I'll enjoy being able to do the same with the current crop of games.

I'll admit that I don't drag the Colecovision out very often though.

[s}{ammer]

As for the new buffy, I am concerned since it isn't the same company making it. I hope they licensed the engine from the original or at least improved on it. I would hate to think they screwed up the new buffy.

[Joshic]

I was fairly shocked when they told me that they only gave $60 for used GameCubes For $60, I would keep my Gamecube even if I didn't play it much. You never know what great games might appear in the future. And it would really suck to have to re-buy a system you sold earlier.

[Captain Harlock]

I'm one of those who is thinking of picking up a GameCube once Metal Gear Solid: The Twin Snakes is released.

I said it before but it's worth repeating. Nintendo is still doing what it's does best. Making a solid gaming only system and great first party games featuring it's stable of "family friendly" characters. But unfortunately that's not the direction the rest of the industry is moving. The Mario games are still fun but they aren't the end all and be all of gaming anymore. So it's only a matter of time before they either get in line with the rest of the industry and right the ship, or go the way of Sega.

[PixyJunket]

Harlock, I don't think it's Nintendo that needs to change.. the industry right now is just caught up in a "fad".. once the novelty of beating up hookers wears off people are going to look for good solid games again, and Nintendo will ALWAYS offer that.

[Decker]

Originally posted by Captain Harlock
I'm one of those who is thinking of picking up a GameCube once Metal Gear Solid: The Twin Snakes is released.
.
They better not be counting on much of that. I think that RE1 clearly established that there is a VERY limited audience who are interested in souped-up versions of older games (excluding the hand-held market). I honestly feel MGS was one of the greatest games I've ever played, and I might be interested in the GC someday for a few games, but certainly not to play MGS again with better graphics.

[s}{ammer]

Originally posted by PixyJunket
Harlock, I don't think it's Nintendo that needs to change.. the industry right now is just caught up in a "fad".. once the novelty of beating up hookers wears off people are going to look for good solid games again, and Nintendo will ALWAYS offer that.

I will never tire of slapping hookers around. ;) I do think your post is really wrong though. Back when Nintendo dominated the gamers were younger. Now we are older and want more mature games. My kids, 7 and younger, don't even like the nintendo games as much as they did a year or two ago. They would rather play whacked on xbox than anything on the n64. They like the ps2 and xbox but have not desire to get a gamecube. Nintendo will either have to MATURE or they will not survive.

[Joshic]

I agree. People will never tire of the novelty of beating up hookers, fancy graphics, etc. The industry has changed. Look at the movie industry. Movies like Matrix Reloaded and Spiderman aren't going to win any awards for acting or directing excellence. Many people would call them mediocre at best in terms of artistic value. But that is where the money is. Summer blockbuster movies are laden with special effects and bring in the crowds - but they don't win best picture awards. Many people in the movie industry complain that the industry has been tainted with these low-quality mega-flicks.

But that's not going to change, because it's those movies that bring in the money. Same thing with the video game industry. Although Nintendo may continue to make money making quality family games, that is not where the money is now. Or will be in the future. The industry has changed permanently and it's not going to go back.

[Josh H]

Originally posted by Joshic
The industry has changed permanently and it's not going to go back.

Definitely true. And it's a damn shame IMO. :(

[Groucho]

Some excellent comments. The "kiddy" market is a niche market, no doubt about it. But I love the traditional Nintendo games the way they are and hope they don't sell out just for more $$$. I'm not interested in a game where Mario pisses on Bowser during the final boss battle, or where Link runs Zelda through with his "sword." I don't mind it if other characters engage in that behavior, but leave these classic characters alone!

Any kind of game, whether "kiddy" or "mature" gets boring after a while. I like a variety myself...so I think my Cube and my Xbox are perfect pals.

[Young Vito]

congrats on a smart move, you have chosen well young padawan :)

[Captain Harlock]

Originally posted by Groucho
Some excellent comments. The "kiddy" market is a niche market, no doubt about it. But I love the traditional Nintendo games the way they are and hope they don't sell out just for more $$$. I'm not interested in a game where Mario pisses on Bowser during the final boss battle, or where Link runs Zelda through with his "sword." I don't mind it if other characters engage in that behavior, but leave these classic characters alone!

Any kind of game, whether "kiddy" or "mature" gets boring after a while. I like a variety myself...so I think my Cube and my Xbox are perfect pals.

I really don't think it's a "kiddy vs. mature" argument, but I think you hit on something very important; there has to be a balance. Variety is truley the spice of life, and that really applys to video games as well. Two of my favorite games are Vice City and Sly Cooper. You can't get more on the opposite sides of the coin than those two. But that shows you the variety that's out there.

With that said, I really do think that Nintendo dropped the ball when it came to one of it's biggest titles, Zelda. Alot of people have said that the whole look of the game turned them off ( on this board included). I myself thought it would have better served Nintendo to design Link like more of a Legolas type character (perhaps using the Soul Caliber character model) rather than one out of a Tom and Jerry cartoon.

If Zelda were taken in a somewhat different direction, I really think it could have done wonders for Nintendo's image. I realise that Zelda the Wind Waker has sold a whole boatload of copys, but I still think the game needed to be more of a "pioneering" effort. "Here we are! We are taking Nintendo into new territory and we're doing it with Zelda the Wind Waker!". Instead we got something that reinforces the "wholesome" image. Not that this is a bad thing, but it's out of step where the industry is heading and where gamers are heading.

[Groucho]

Originally posted by Young Vito
congrats on a smart move, you have chosen well young padawan :) I don't think intelligence has anything to do with this, it's all about personal preference.

As for Zelda, I LOVED the new look and I don't think I'm in the minority opinion. Wind Waker turns heads, and to give Link a "Legolas" look would simply make it another game in the pack. I don't think it would have helped sales.

Nintendo did make a big push to show their "mature" side. The game was Eternal Darkness and it was a disappointment (sales wise...the game itself is great).

[jediwicz]

X-box just seems to be a shooter console. I do still want to play KOTOR but when a "top 10" of upcoming games list reads like a military brochure I don't know. The list I'm looking at goes: Halo 2, Fable (ok-an RPG), Starcraft Ghost, Counter Strike, Deus Ex, Ninja Gaiden (break in the pattern), Freedom: Soldiers of Liberty, X-men Legends (the only other non-shooter), Armed and Dangerous, Full Spectrum Warrior.
GCN has a list of IMO quality games that many people are going to miss because they're not "mature" and it's their loss.
The list I just spewed came from Game Informers post E3 wrap-up.

[bigdaddy1980]

I had to go to 3 different places before I could find a store that still had a copy of Zelda last week, doesn't seem like many people are turned off by it's new look.

[Gdrlv]

Originally posted by Groucho
I don't think intelligence has anything to do with this, it's all about personal preference.

As for Zelda, I LOVED the new look and I don't think I'm in the minority opinion. Wind Waker turns heads, and to give Link a "Legolas" look would simply make it another game in the pack. I don't think it would have helped sales.

Nintendo did make a big push to show their "mature" side. The game was Eternal Darkness and it was a disappointment (sales wise...the game itself is great).

Eternal Darkness was the only GameCube exclusive that I actually loved. It was intelligent, had an engrossing storyline and was "mature" but not just for the sake of being mature. It felt like Nintendo had grown up, and in a good way. They'd have kept my loyalty if they'd been able to balance their signature characters with more games like ED. Unfortunately, ED was much more an exception than the rule.

As much as many people like games featuring Mario, Zelda and Donkey Kong, Nintendo can't continue to rely solely on these characters to keep selling systems. And they are. ED reminded me how good a Nintendo game can be. None of the other games they've made for this system gave me that same reminder.

Don't get me wrong. I bought the GameCube for 3 reasons...Mario, Zelda and Metroid. Mario felt way too "been there, done that" for me. I don't know why I didn't click with Zelda. Maybe it was the graphics, maybe not. I just wasn't having fun with the game. Metroid was good, but it didn't blow me away like I expected it to (maybe my own inflated expectations were the problem). But whatever the problem, I was not having fun with the system, and like I said earlier...I don't spend enough time on gaming to justify having all 3 systems sitting around.

[Jeremy517]

Originally posted by jediwicz
X-box just seems to be a shooter console. I do still want to play KOTOR but when a "top 10" of upcoming games list reads like a military brochure I don't know. The list I'm looking at goes: Halo 2, Fable (ok-an RPG), Starcraft Ghost, Counter Strike, Deus Ex, Ninja Gaiden (break in the pattern), Freedom: Soldiers of Liberty, X-men Legends (the only other non-shooter), Armed and Dangerous, Full Spectrum Warrior.
GCN has a list of IMO quality games that many people are going to miss because they're not "mature" and it's their loss.
The list I just spewed came from Game Informers post E3 wrap-up.

Full Spectrum Warrior may have people shooting guns, but it isn't a "shooter"; it is more of an RTS.

[s}{ammer]

Originally posted by jediwicz
X-box just seems to be a shooter console. I do still want to play KOTOR but when a "top 10" of upcoming games list reads like a military brochure I don't know. The list I'm looking at goes: Halo 2, Fable (ok-an RPG), Starcraft Ghost, Counter Strike, Deus Ex, Ninja Gaiden (break in the pattern), Freedom: Soldiers of Liberty, X-men Legends (the only other non-shooter), Armed and Dangerous, Full Spectrum Warrior.
GCN has a list of IMO quality games that many people are going to miss because they're not "mature" and it's their loss.
The list I just spewed came from Game Informers post E3 wrap-up.

out of the 10 games you mentioned fable, starcraft, ninja gaiden, and xmen are not going to be FPS. Granted, the xbox does shooters well, Doom 3 and Half-life 2 are even going to be on it. That however is not all that it is good for. Obviously they aer addressing the RPG issue since KOTOR came out and Fable on the way. What you saw last year on xbox was the same as the first year or so on PS2, slowly good games coming out. Now what we are seeing is xbox getting in it's stride with some really good games coming.

[Outlaw]

This is a bad time of the year to sell your consoles, in just a few short weeks, the onslaught of fall games for every system are coming out. Its not time for selling, its time for buying consoles! :).

[Kicker_of_Elves]

Originally posted by Outlaw
This is a bad time of the year to sell your consoles, in just a few short weeks, the onslaught of fall games for every system are coming out. Its not time for selling, its time for buying consoles! :).

F-ZERO
Rouge Squadron 3: Rebel Strike
Soul Caliber 2

:drool:

(Why i bought one a 2 weeks ago :D)

[mr.snowmizer]

Originally posted by Outlaw
This is a bad time of the year to sell your consoles, in just a few short weeks, the onslaught of fall games for every system are coming out. Its not time for selling, its time for buying consoles! :).

If you know you're selling it, now is the time before the fall price drops.

[mee2]

I sold my GC last week, and have no regrets whatsoever. That system was an absolute dissappointment to me, and i had in my collection what would be considered it's biggest games. Zelda was very good initially, but it quickly grew old when i was forced to traverse that boring ocean over and over again.

KOTOR has raised the bar as far as Xbox games go, MS is gonna have to keep delivering the good stuff to keep the interest of the people that bought a box solely for that game....

[jekbrown]

Originally posted by Groucho
Maybe if you guys tried playing more than a couple games on your cube you'd enjoy it more. This is the reverse of the thread where the guy was slamming the Xbox after playing one game.

I dunno about you, but I generally dont play games Im not interested in... and so far, only a couple of games on gc have interested me. I have an xbox as well, and any multi-platform games I just get for it. Im not saying gc doesnt have good exclusive games, it just doesnt have much that interests ME. Zelda, 3d marios, 3d metroids, mario carts, mario golf, F-zero etc etc etc may be fine games, I just dont want them. Id give my left arm for a big nintendo franchise game in 2d on gc... but thats never going to happen... so.. (shrug)...

j

[rgarcia]

Gdrlv, congrats on your xbox. I'm sure your going to enjoy it.

As for me, I own all three systems like most of you. For my case, the ps2 and gc do not get played quite often as the xbox right now(playing KOTOR). I enjoy all the systems, each has its own little niche. I wouldn't sell any of them for the following reasons:

1. the price you get for trade-in is laughable
2. as someone said earlier, the exclusives for each system
3. each system has its strengths
4. knowing if I want a game, I don't have to wait if its going to on a certain system

Also, I feel like I'm getting a new system this week. I won't go in detail, but lets just says I will expanding the xbox capabilities later this week. I cant wait!!!

[Furio]

Nintendo's problem is they are always to come out last when everyone releases their newest systems. Sega came out with their Genesis before Nintendo came out with SNES. Playstation came out long before Nintendo 64. And now Xbox and PS2 came out long before Gamecube, and Gamecube isn't as powerful as either of them.

[Josh H]

Originally posted by Furio
And now Xbox and PS2 came out long before Gamecube, and Gamecube isn't as powerful as either of them.

Point taken on PS2.

The X-box came out 3 days earlier, not worth mentioning.

[Flay]

Originally posted by Furio
And now Xbox and PS2 came out long before Gamecube, and Gamecube isn't as powerful as either of them.

PS2 did come out a year before the Cube, but the Xbox only had a 3 day jump. That's not long before.

Anyway, I sold my Cube on Ebay a few months ago. I purchased one basically for Eternal Darkness which I loved. Remake didn't interest me nor did I care for RE0.

I tried to get into Zelda but it didn't happen. I did enjoy some of Metroid, but I never finished it. The rest of Nintendo's exclusives are just not up to par for my gaming tastes.

I may repurchase another Cube if they drop in price dramatically and they come out with some decent games. Same goes for the PS2 if another GTA game is released in combo with a price drop.

Until then, I'll stick with my XBox and PC.

[jw2299]

Knowing that they go for 85 bucks makes me want to go get one just to play Animal Crossing and Zelda.

[darkside]

I definitely agree with selling a system you aren't playing. Its not worth investing money in something to collect dust. I sold both my Xbox and PS2 for this reason. My gaming tastes were perfectly fufilled by the GameCube, but if you don't care for the games available for a console selling it makes sense to me.

Definitely true. And it's a damn shame IMO.

If gaming continues to go the way its going I will probably not even buy another console. I grew up gaming in the late 80's and will miss the Nintendo style of gaming if it ever goes completely away. 99% of the top sellers on the PS2 and Xbox have zero interest for me. About all I bought on the PSone were Japanese style RPGs and even quality games of this genre seem to be few and far between now. The GBA may be my last refuge for the types of games I like to play.

[Not A N00b]

Thats weird, at the gamestop I work at we can't keep used GCNs in stock for more then a day.

[Thrush]

Originally posted by Furio
And now Xbox and PS2 came out long before Gamecube, and Gamecube isn't as powerful as either of them.

The GC is more powerful than the PS2 but not the XBOX.

[Groucho]

Originally posted by Thrush
The GC is more powerful than the PS2 but not the XBOX. I think he was talking about market share, not computing power.

[jediwicz]

I prefer multi-platform games on the cube. I get faster load times and I got my wavebird to go across the room and through glass. And when I say multi-platform I mean GBA too. Sweeet.

[trigun]

Why wasn't Madden 2004 for GameCube cel shaded. That would be sweet :thumbsup:

[darkside]

Originally posted by trigun
Why wasn't Madden 2004 for GameCube cel shaded. That would be sweet :thumbsup:

Why would it be and why not the PS2 version as well so it could appeal to all the Sly Cooper fans?

[sararekuforever]

Okay, I usually don't post here, but talking about Gamecube usually give me a little energy. I truthfully, dislike the console, with a passion. There are just, many things wrong with it.

1. Proprietary format: even the fact that it's an optical format doesn't save it from discouraging developers. Most developers have CD/DVD hardware, and staying away from such an easy format to use [CD/DVD media is cheap and can be purchased anywhere in large volumes] keeps a lot of good third party games from it. The use of this format also prohibits the Gamecube from having more uses than a game console. I have two DVD players, but there is no denying that the PS2's DVD features have not helped me. It is great for just testing a disc to see if it works or for some late night viewing [or listening] when surround sound and a big screen is just too much. And considering how EASY playing the import scene on Gamecube is, it's a shame I can't get the wealth of games I could with a modded PS2 [and modding the PS2 is very hard, at least compared to GC modding]

2. Game selection, even in Japan the selection is small. Not as small as N64 [which even hardcore Nintendo fans were disappointed in] but still small compared to PS2/PSOne. To this day, even new PSOne games are being released in Japan and USA. The amount of genre available is amazing, and to this day there are still hundreds of games I haven't played. Doing this on GC would not be very hard, especially considering most of the worthwhile [read: decent] games are first party mascot platform games. Even the big development houses that have cash to burn stay away from GC. FF: Crystal Chronicles, Metal Gear Solid, and Soul Calibur 2 are great releases for any console, but they probably seem like god sends to most gamers that only have a GC. The system lacks RPG, music, sport, fighting, driving, etc [and no, Mario Kart does not make up for no GT3 or Project Gotham, Smash Brothers does not make up for no Tekken, Dead or Alive, Street Fighter, Zelda does not make up for FF, Xenosaga, Square/Enix, Metroid does not makeup for Halo, Doom, Half Life, etc]

3. The system itself is just..off. Third party solutions are available, but no where near as reliable as first party peripherals. The controller seems made for Nintendo games only, and is not good enough for most games. Speaking of Soul Caliber, as someone who has played all three versions, a mix of the PS2 and Xbox versions would be heavenly. Mostly, the only reason people would prefer GC is for "Link", but that shows another thing that makes GC unappealing..

4. Mascot attachment, if you don't have it, GC will collect dust. People will choose the awkward GC version [that most people are getting third party controllers, arcade sticks, or adapters for] just because of Link being in it. I will admit it is Nintendo's exclusive, their line of characters, but unless you love them buying the console is a big mistake. Worst thing is, most Nintendo first party games are the same: platforms in which you have to collect something [shines: Mario, rupees; Zelda, power bombs: Metroid, items: Animal Crossing, banana: Donkey Kong, ghosts: Luigi]

5. Support: even to stock owners it is obvious Nintendo is just playing around with Gamecube. Most fans are okay with being told something big is coming and that a new Zelda game is coming out, but someone who just likes games and hopes to have a system that will provide him with many games for a few years is not. Nintendo seems to think its gimmicks are enough to give life to it. Connecting a GBA [$70-100] with a link cable [$10-20] to a game [$30-50] to get a minigame [1 or 2 hours of game play] or a secret item [wow, nothing] does not make up for no online play, no DVD, no storage solution, etc. Having to have 4 people to enjoy some games, or in the case of one certain game, 4 GBA and three games is even worse.

6. Nintendo [Especially Miyamoto and crazy man Yamauchi] always critiques developers that release sequels and remakes [Square, Capcom, Konami, etc] yet all Nintendo does is give their mascot games prettier graphics, add a cheap gimmick, and brag about how innovative they are...hypocritical..hypocritical they are. And then that whole GBA milking scheme. I bought a GBC [thinking the platform would last as long as the original GB] at full price, a year and a half later, I had to buy a GBA thinking that THIS one would last a decade or so, bought games for it, bought a lighting solution for it [mine cost $10, but some people paid over $70 for Afterburner] but then found out GBASP came out. I didn't buy SP, but many people did, but months later they found out GB player came out, and then Nintendo announces something which MIGHT be another GB device..that's even worse than Microsoft.

Anyways, it's all a matter of taste, but Nintendo is pretty messed up as it is..and unless it returns to its glory days [not NES, but SNES,tons of third party games, a few first party games, and a few innovations] most people will leave it. I have never been with it, but for a long time I had a DEEP respect for Nintendo and recognized that the wonders of Sega and Sony would not exist had it not been for them. That respect is gone now though, and everything good about Nintendo is only a memory.

Here's what really makes me mad..

Nintendo owns Camelot..

yet they keep them from developing a full Shining Force, re-releasing SF3 completely, keep Golden Sun on GBA [when it would make an incredible console game] , and have them using their best minds and coders for of all things....Mario Golf and Mario Tennis..it's a waste of a development lab. Camelot has always been known for quality action and strategy RPG's, and helped with lots of 16 bit gems..like Landstalker, Shining Force, etc.....

And Gamefreak, it is obvious they KNOW how to code an RPG, they also know how to create extremely cute characters, and have the full support of Takahashi [Pokemon] and Miyamoto [Mario]..they can do better than Pokemon [though Pokemon is adorable and very fun] I can only imagine what they might be able to come up with if they get Nintendo's fan base and financial dept. to support them.

Yet Nintendo just keeps releasing Zelda games and Smash Brothers..sequel after sequel, remake after remake..for the love of gOddish, Nintendo has nearly 12 pokemon games, 4 Mario remakes [not even original features], 6 Zelda games...which are mostly remakes of the SAME game [Link to the Past] Please, put that talent to work people. You have two decades of gaming and probably gaming's most experienced programmers and designers, you could be making legendary RPG's, incredible action games, with excellent game play and graphics.....it really is sad. I understand people love Zelda and Mario...but it really is a waste..when a company that could innovate [truthfully] holds back and do something completely different.

[jekbrown]

yikes, serious animosity towards the big Ninny! :) Its just my opinion, but it seems to me that Nintendo is one of the best 2d game developers (esp platformers) in the history of games.... but they are mediocre at 3d stuff. There are LOTS of other factors at work here, but I dont consider it an "amazing coincidence" that Ninny has lost more and more market share as they have started making less and less new 2d games. I mean, what console gamer wouldnt buy a 2d metroid game on gc? or a 2d mario? Kid Icarus? GBC/GBA has 2d ninny games on it... and surprise surprise it does really well. I know, I know.. there are other factors at work... but Im convinced that the big switch from 2d to 3d is part of it. I really dont care about the classic Nintendo 1st party properties when they are translated into 3d... and I dont think Im the only one...

j

[Captain Harlock]

Sarakefu brings up alot of good points. I still think that Nintendo is overly protective of thier image to a fault. "Oh we don't make games like GTA3, that's not the Nintendo way". Well that's a bit out of step with the direction the industry is heading. The wholesome mascots are still great and people have fond memorys of them but they aren't the end all and be all of gaming anymore.

I still say that Link should have been a little more "grown up" title. I read an interview with Zelda's designer today ( I can't remember the guys name so please forgive me), and he said that he designed the new Zelda game so that if a kids' parents walked into a room they couldn't tell if they were playing a video game or watching a cartoon. That's all well and good but that's what Nintendo's problem is. The "cartoon characters" are not cutting it anymore.

[darkside]

You have to be kidding about the 3D thing. They have published some of the greatest 3D games ever made including Super Mario 64, Zelda: Ocarina of Time, Metroid Prime, Zelda: Wind Waker just to name a few. Nintendo is probably the best 3D game publisher not the worst.

At least Nintendo's 3D games have a decent camera and the characters don't get stuck in walls all the time.

I hear the complaints sararekuforever has on the Cube. I don't agree 100% and I think its a bit over generalized in some respects, but I understand the frustration. Nintendo has to focus on being more 3rd Party friendly for the next console or they won't stand a chance.

BTW Shining Force belongs to Sega, Camelot can't do a SF game just because they did them on the Genesis and Saturn. I agree they should be working on a console RPG, but to be honest the Japanese type RPGs really don't sell that well anymore in the US so I doubt it would be the savior of the Cube here. Xenosaga was a failure in the US.

[Dean Kousoulas]

"Xenosaga was a failure in the US."

I remember reading an interview from a Namco rep, who said they were very pleased with their recent sales, which included Dead To Rights and Xenosaga on PS2. I believe he said Xenosaga sold 100,000 copies, which isn't really that bad considering only the hardcore rpg fans would be interesting in the game (30 minute+ cutscenes?)

Dean

[jekbrown]

Originally posted by darkside
You have to be kidding about the 3D thing. They have published some of the greatest 3D games ever made including Super Mario 64, Zelda: Ocarina of Time, Metroid Prime, Zelda: Wind Waker just to name a few. Nintendo is probably the best 3D game publisher not the worst.

100% serious. Mario 64 wasnt half the game Mario 3 or SM world was. it was in 3d... so what, it was less of a game. Blurry textures and a wander-around style dont make M64 a great game. zelda? meh. Metroid prime wasnt even made by nintendo, so lets not try to slip that one in there mmmmm-k?

its just my opinion, but the 3d stuff ninny has done hasnt been very special. I dont care about 3d metroids AT ALL. I'd pay $79.99 for a 2d metroid on gc... I wont pay $7.99 for a fps-style one. Again, it could be "just me" but like i said, as they have made more and more 2d stuff their market share has gone down more and more... while gba (where they still do create 2d games) enjoys complete domination of its market.

j

[darkside]

Originally posted by jekbrown
100% serious. Mario 64 wasnt half the game Mario 3 or SM world was. it was in 3d... so what, it was less of a game. Blurry textures and a wander-around style dont make M64 a great game. zelda? meh. Metroid prime wasnt even made by nintendo, so lets not try to slip that one in there mmmmm-k?
j

I will slip that one in there because its a Nintendo game mmmmm-k. Are you going to break every game developer down for Nintendo or just Retro. Nintendo oversaw the development, they published it, its a Nintendo game. Mario 64 and Zelda OoT are considered two of the best games ever made by every respected game reviewer and game magazine around. Just because you like 2D games better doesn't make Nintendo bad at 3D gaming mmmmm-k.

[jediwicz]

Nintendo was also the one that set the FPS bar with Goldeneye. Will someone say now that it wasn't Nintendo, it was Rare? Please. Nintendo oversees everything.

[jekbrown]

Originally posted by darkside
I will slip that one in there because its a Nintendo game mmmmm-k.

"oversaw developement" and "publishing" a game and actually developing a game are completely different animals. Metroid Prime is no more a Nintendo-made game than Soukyugurentai is a EA-made game.

[i] Mario 64 and Zelda OoT are considered two of the best games ever made by every respected game reviewer and game magazine around. [/B]

you actually enjoyed M64 more than Mario 3 or Mario World? or did magazine reviewers just tell you that you did?


[i] Just because you like 2D games better doesn't make Nintendo bad at 3D gaming mmmmm-k. [/B]

they arent "bad" they just arent anything special. You can talk about magazine reviewers all you want, videogame fans have left nintendo and if all their new 3d games were so "great", Nintendo would still own the videogame market. Fact is they aren't, and they don't.

btw, i never said I didnt like 3d games... i just said I didnt think ninny was that great at developing them.

j

[Groucho]

Popularity != Quality

[jekbrown]

i agree with your point groucho, mario 64 is, after all, pretty popular...

j

[jediwicz]

This East Coast stuff is crazy. I don't think Mario 64 was as good as SMB3 but it was a great first step. So was Zelda:OOT. It's all about progression (and progression might mean online/connectivity). Windwaker was brilliant progression IMO.

[darkside]

"oversaw developement" and "publishing" a game and actually developing a game are completely different animals. Metroid Prime is no more a Nintendo-made game than Soukyugurentai is a EA-made game.

By your way of thinking Madden 2004 isn't an EA game either. I'm sure Tiburon just shows up once a year and asks them to publish a football game for them.

So your logic jekbrown is that only Miyamoto made games are Nintendo games which means Nintendo hardly makes any games and their 3D games are bad simply because you personally don't like them and because they made good 2D games. The fact 3 of their 3D games were games of the year also seems to reinforce how bad they are at making 3D games to you.

Super Mario 64 and Zelda OoT are two of the best games I have ever played and were considered two of the best by gamers and critics alike. Yes I prefered SM64 to Mario World, but I think they are both great games.

The reason Nintendo is losing market share isn't because of their 3D games which have sold well. They have to fix their problems in getting more third party support if they want to have mass appeal.

I'm sorry you personally don't like Nintendo's 3D games, but other than making them more violent to sell more copies there is nothing wrong with any of them. The camera is among the best I've used, much better than 3D games I've played from Sega, Konami, Infogrames, or EA. Not to mention you don't get stuck in walls very easily. This is something Rockstar and Infogrames could really work on.

It comes down to how much fun a game is to play and Nintendo's 3D games are just as much fun and challenging as their 2D ones.

[Outlaw]

heh, if Nintendo's major franchises were still 2D we'd all be arguing how nintendo needs to make 3D games to compete with X-Box and PS2. Anyway I'm not going to argue since this is a nit-picky gripe and you're in the minority here.

The truth of the matter is, a lot of people like Nintendo's latest games and think they are excellent (source: www.gamerankings.com). Don't be afraid of change...change is good :).

OT, I'm pretty sure Xenosaga sold above expectations. I think they expected 200,000 or so, and are now up to about 340,000. Can't remember exactly, but something like that.

[Young Vito]

... while gba (where they still do create 2d games) enjoys complete domination of its market.


-ohbfrank-um...dude...this is just a hunch but the GBA has NO OTHER competitors..:confused: