jasonbird

Being a fan of the original trilogy (not fanatic, but fan) I had
some problems with Lucas' direction of the first prequal. After
time, I've come to terms with a lot of the things I disliked earlier
and I'm looking forward to how Lucas plans on tieing everything
together with episode 3.

Having said that, I just watched TPM again and I just can't figure
out why Lucas went so young with Anakin. I mean he looks as
old as my 7 year old. Yet in episode 2 Anakin states that he's
thought of her every day since they parted (not typical behavior
for a child of this age). Here's where I think it would
have 'worked' better to have a young say 12 year old in
the roll of Anakin in TPM. By that age boys are thinking about
girls and having crushes and the like. It would have made much
more sense (IMHO) and the scene where Anakin and Padme
talk (shortly after they leave his mother behind) and Padme tells
him that she cares about him and he says, "I care about you too."
It's alomost silly. Besides the fact that Jake Lloyd is terrible in
the role and shows no range whatsoever.

Does anyone else think that having Anakin a little older would
have paid off in better chemistry between the two characters?

Jason

Doughboy

I agree. Writing the character of Anakin as 9 years old in TPM was one of many mistakes Lucas made. He claimed that it was to make the separation from his mother a lot harder on him, since he was so young. The problem was their goodbye scene was so poorly directed and acted that we never really got that impression.

What he should've done was made Padme' maybe a couple years older(16 or 17 instead of 14) and cast a 15 year-old as Anakin. First, it would've allowed him to begin developing the love story in TPM instead of rushing through it in Episode II. Second(assuming he set Episode II only 3-5 years after TPM instead of 10), it would've allowed him to use the same actor as Anakin in all three prequels. And third, it would've spared everyone from witnessing the horra that is Jake Lloyd attempting to act.

Looking back, one of TPM's biggest faults(and it has many) is that enough didn't happen plotwise in that movie. In its 2 hour and 15 minute running time, only two major events happen. Obi-Wan agrees to train Anakin and Palpatine manuevers his way into the position of Chancellor. And neither of those things will even matter to the casual viewer til Episode III comes out. Unfortunately, a lot of those folks seem to have tuned out Star Wars at this point.

Rypro 525

And they should have picked someone other then Heyden Christison to play Anikin, he also can't act if his life depended on it

Doughboy

That I disagree with. Life as a House proved he could act. And I actually liked him as Anakin in Episode II. I blame Lucas' writing and directing on any of the actors' difficiencies. Last I checked, Liam Neeson, Natalie Portman, Sam Jackson, and Jimmy Smits are all capable actors, but you wouldn't know it from watching either of the prequels.

Jackskeleton

I have a big problem with how young they decided to start out the prequels also. The way I see it, Lucas so far has been sort of doing a Mirror image of the original trilogies format in a sense as a sort of back drop to how the prequels are molded. With the whole ship battle with an unlikely hero at the end of film. they really should have made Anakin around or close to Luke's age in the original trilogy. Now the arguement of a jedi has to be trained young could be over ruled by simply adding the reason he went dark was because he was trained to old or something. either way, they did start off way to young in anakins life.

Numanoid

The sooner you guys accept the fact that Lucas sold out in order to appeal to 5 year-olds, the happier you will be.

Jason

I've said it before, but the movie released as Episode II really should have been Episode I. The title "The Phantom Menace" even works better for this movie, as the senate and the Jedi are being manipulated b an unknown force. Anakin could simply have a boner for the hottie senator from Naboo, and their falling in actual love could be due to bonding when Anakin loses his mother. Backstory for Annie and Mommy could be told in 45 seconds of dialog. Jar Jar being set up as a patsy would still work, as it would only take one scene or so to set him up as a gullible schmuck.

Then Episode II could be a real attack of the clones, and Anakin would have more time to properly turn to the dark side of the force, with a proper fall of the rebublic in episode III.

jasonbird

You know, I never thought of it that way, but TPM does seem
a lot like A New Hope. with the whole Death Star/Trade Federation
battle at the end. Instead of a trench Anakin flies inside, but
extremely similar in themes. As far as doing away with the
Phantom Menace entirely, I'm not so sure. I think it would only
be fair to see how everything ties together in episode 3 before
we completely come to that decision. Qui Gon might even have
a more important impact on the whole thing (but I doubt Lucas
would be smart enough to pull that off). I also agree with Lucas
not allowing the actors to show any passion or emmotion, but he
might have done that on purpose to off set Lloyds enability to
act.

Jason

jasonbird

BTW, I'm glad I'm not the only one that thought this. I don't
think that the movies are terrible (yet), they seem to grow on
you as time goes on. Except for Jar Jar who I've come to accept
as Lucas wanting to show off ILM's abilities.

Jason

Panda Phil

Same here. I guess our expectations were just too high at the time. Still, I've always rather enjoyed AotC's.

Hopefully once episode 3 is done, Lucas will retire from moviemaking and switch to something he's good at. Directing ILM demo tapes.

BizRodian

Sold out? he's making kids movies... like he always has been. I hardly call it selling out.

MurraySiskind

I agree. Hayden Christiansen can be a good actor but noone could recite the lines he had to in Episode II and make them sound good. This movie had atrocious writing and that generally trumps good acting.

Jackskeleton

exactly, they were always cereal dramas. they were always made with that child like charm in the intent. simple way to put it.. Star Wars was never intended for only adults.

the real problem is that Lucas has been out of the loop for some time. He is really rusty with his craft. Not to mention his lack in actor motivation skills. either way I wouldn't say he sold out.

Terrell

His performance in Life As A House was great. He's even getting some great buzz for his work in Shattered Glass. I thought Hayden was good in AOTC in everything except the love story scenes. Hayden was fantastic in the lightsaber duels and the scenes where he had to show rage and anger. He'll be great, as long as Lucas writes no love story dialogue into Episode III. I really see no problems with the dialogue in TPM, and most of the poor dialogue in AOTC is in the love story. The rest of it is fine, aside for 3POs silliness in the Arena and droid factory.

I disagree with part of that as well. Liam Neeson gave a solid performance in TPM. Ewan Mcgregor was also solid in both films. There was nothing bad about his performance. Jimmy Smits also delivered his 2 lines in AOTC very well. No problems there. Ian McDiarmid and Christopher Lee were also solid in both TPM and AOTC.

The performance problems for the most part come from Sam Jackson, Natalie Portman, and Jake Lloyd. The age is not the problem. Jake Lloyd is just a terrible child actor. There are a number of child actors that could do a good job. Haley Joel Osment anyone? He was just terrible. Natalie Portman was stiff as a board in TPM. While she was more natural and better in AOTC, she's still not there. As for Jackson, he sticks out too much. He's just there. Some lines he delivers well. Others, nothing. The problem with his character is Lucas wrote Sam Jackson a part because he begged to be in the thing. Lucas should have just said I can't help you Sam. You'd stick out like a sore thumb anyway.

Lame! Lucas created two of the most successful, popular, and loved trilogies of all time. He gave us Star Wars and Indiana Jones. Thank God! He's been nominated twice for Best Director, once for Best Screenplay, and has had two films nominated for Best Picture. There are a ton of good directors that have never come close to achieving something like that, and probably never will. He created and founded ILM and Skywalker Sound. He has a net worth of about 4 billion dollars. Now, what was your experience in the movie industry? Best thing you can do is quit giving advice to someone who has become a multi-billionaire from making movies.

I would agree with that. 22 years is a long time not to have made a movie. That said, the prequels visuals, FX, action, and production values are first rate. I thought the story in AOTC was solid as well. As you said, he's just been gone a long, long time when he made TPM. I still say if he hands off the screenwriting chores to a great screenwriter, 95% of the problems are solved. Still, if these films didn't have the name Star Wars on them and the baggage that comes with that, it's doubtful they'd be bagged on so much.

young

although i don't think he sold out, SW and Empires Strikes Back was not as "kid-geared" as the rest. definitely a transition point there.

--
as for the final battle ending, don't forget Return of the Jedi... all have similar endings - improbable shot destroys the critical but exposed part of the big important ship.

i expect a similar ending in the next one.

young

i disagree. thought he was poor and overacted. especially his grimaces of anger/pain. just my opinion.
agree here. i think they almost save the movies. Ewan is great so far.
agree again... except, please gawd, no Haley... i keep thinking of the horror of AI... "MOMMY!!" imo, he's a one note kid actor. good in i see dead people and that's pretty much it.
i agree. it's his movies, and i may not like how they're being delivered, but that's his perogative. but, people don't have to be insiders or have accomplished anything in the movie industry to be able to criticize/give advice. otherwise, no one except politicians would be able to criticize each other (or whatever field).
agree again. but, i don't think a good screenplay would help the fundamental problems. you can't give the screenwriter jarjar and make it a good movie. lucas created the characters and the story arc - unfortunately, imo, those are the flawed items.

Jackskeleton

You have to remember the script needs to be sort of cheesey, these are not suppose to be the most serious films. Look at ANH. some of those lines just reak of campiness.

Jackskeleton

One thing that bugs me.. they really don't get along the lines of the backlash of driods.. in ANH the bar doesn't serve droids.. with some thinking you can assuming it's because of the driod war.. or who knows. Now really, there is to many loose ends that need to be tied by the time episode III's credits roll. hopefully it can get it done.

Draven

If Anakin hadn't said "m'lady" every other friggin word in AotC, I'd have liked it a lot better.

I can't believe people actually sat there and thought it sounded good. It bugs me to no end.

Rypro 525

yes lucas can't write decent dialogue today, even Anakin's anger seemed forced and stilted

DVDProfessor

That's great, I totally agree

trigun

Well, I haven't got to complain about Star Wars in a while, so this thread will work

I recently rewatched the "special edition" releases of the original trilogy. Those should have prepared us for the prequels. Almost all of the additions add nothing or actually take away from the films, and the edits are aggravating to say the least. Was it really necessary to cut a few frames here and there to remove shots of ENEMY soldiers getting hit by blaster shots? Greedo shoots first...ugh. Droids bonking each other on the head? Han stepping on Jabba's tail? Han should've been iced on the spot for that, and ILM should've never allowed that crappy FX shot of him rising as he steps on the tail to be placed in the movie. The song and dance in Jabba's palace? Blargh!

Still holding out hope that George will come to his senses and release the original version of the original trilogy on DVD.

ckolchak

disagree.
there is a difference between making something that a certain audience will especially find an appeal in, as opposed to just pandering to that audience.
when he made the first 2 films, he was taking 40's/50's era (kid) pop culture and synthesizing that with the 60's/70's values of a young adult.
around the time he began to make Jedi, he suddenly became weighted down with the responsibility of giving young children positive values in their entertainment.
that's why The Epic War Of The Galaxies ends so , relatively, bloodless and without much strife.
and also why a complicated and messy love triangle is neutered by a retroactive "sibling clause".
on the one hand you have to give the guy credit for caring about what gets into the minds of children and wanting to only produce positive entertainment.
but mere good intentions are usually the bane of art.
and i don't think he gave children enough credit for being able to parse out positive and negative messages (Solo pro-actively shooting Greedo is an example of a cynical, bad message-hence its tempering in the SEs)

as someone else has said, thematically an older Annakin would have been more appropriate, becasue it would have given the reticence of Yoda to train Luke later in the series much more relevance:
"Don't you remember what happened the last time we tried to train someone this age?"

BassDude

I always took that scene as the usual ignorant basis for bigotry and hatred today... "Those driods take jobs away from (insert race/species)! We don't want their kind here!"

Or...it just costs too much to stock driod elixirs. :-)

Luc TC

1) Episode I and II could have been combined as one movie. EASILY.

2) Hayden Christansen do not have the face that you love or care about, or at least Lucas failed to pull that across. So if Lucas can't convince us to like him or care about him, why should it be tragic that he turns to the dark side. Shoot, I was cheering for the bad guys because Anakin was so annoying in both movies.

3) Everyone is telling me that all the loose ends will be resolved in episode III. If that's the case, they better make the movie 5hrs. What's more, it's too lame if the movie tries too hard to solve all the inconsistancies.

4) If Chewy is in Episode III, than they will have to make Episode 3.5 to resolve yet another "It's a small world afterall."