On with the shizzle.

http://us.news1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/rids/20030803/i/1059894224.3892355160.jpg

Good Lord. That's like 7 nice houses on her finger. I am a bvig Kobe fan, and think his wife is very good looking, but that's just ridiculous. Surely there are 4 million better ways to spend $4 million dollars.

That's a big rock!

Originally posted by PJsig08
Good Lord. That's like 7 nice houses on her finger. I am a bvig Kobe fan, and think his wife is very good looking, but that's just ridiculous. Surely there are 4 million better ways to spend $4 million dollars.

Well, that's the price for infidelity. Vanessa has both jewels... Kobe's and that rock. :p

Yeah, something like that.

So what does everyone think of Mark Cuban's comments today? Don't know if this was posted, but if you missed it, here's the article:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/story?id=1590430

Cuban: Season opener vs. Lakers now 'must-see TV'

So it was only a matter of time before the Mavericks owner weighed in on the Kobe Bryant scandal.

During an interview with Access Hollywood's Pat O'Brien, Cuban commented on the charges filed in Colorado against Bryant, the Los Angeles Lakers guard accused of sexually assaulting a 19-year-old woman.

"From a business perspective, it's great for the NBA. It's reality television, people love train-wreck television and you hate to admit it, but that is the truth, that's the reality today," Cuban told the TV show.

NBA commissioner David Stern quickly rebutted Cuban's comments on Tuesday.

"Any suggestion that there will be some economic or promotional benefit to the NBA arising from the charge pending against Kobe Bryant is both misinformed and unseemly," Stern said in a statement. "That idea does not reflect the views of the NBA, NBA owners generally, or others associated with our sport."

In its Tuesday editions, USA Today asked Cuban to elaborate on his "It's great for the NBA" comments.

"Notoriety sells in this day and age," Cuban told the newspaper. "... I can't think of anyone who is going through a legal problem who doesn't get high attention. Is that cold-blooded? Yeah. But it is bottom-line reality."

Cuban added: "I don't want to compare Kobe with O.J. (Simpson) because Kobe's case hasn't been decided, but the reality is there is more interest in him (Kobe) now."

Cuban also said the intrigue will make Dallas' season opener against the Lakers on Oct. 28 "must-see TV."

"Take away the personal aspect and the reality is that there will be more people watching our game against the Lakers," Cuban told USA Today. "Who do you know won't watch the Lakers game with Kobe?"

Bryant is scheduled to attend a preliminary hearing on Wednesday at the Eagle County Justice Center at approximately 6 p.m. ET. Bryant will be read the charges against him and may enter a plea.

On Monday, a possible witness may have emerged in the investigation.

Bobby Pietrack, a bellman at the Lodge & Spa at Cordillera, told police that he saw his 19-year-old co-worker shortly after she left Bryant's room on the night of the alleged sexual assault, ESPN's Shelley Smith reported Monday.

Pietrack reportedly told police that the woman was visibly upset, disheveled and had red marks on her neck and face, according to Smith.

Sources close to the investigation say Pietrack is considered the first link in the chain of what is called "immediate outcry," meaning he is the first person the alleged victim cried out to immediately following the alleged incident.

The alleged victim went to police the following day, approximately 13 hours after the alleged assault. Sources also said that photos taken of her at that point show the marks. Those photos are considered part of the prosecution's evidence.

Pietrack has not spoken to reporters and has declined repeated requests by ESPN.While I think Cuban is good for the game, and an idiot sometimes, these comments are pretty ridiculous. Yes, the raitings will be huge for Kobe's first couple games no matter what the outcome, but I wouldn't say this is "good" for the NBA. He shouldn't have said it, but then again, the guy says a lot of stupid things.

Whatever, someone was bound to say something stupid like this....and surely this won;t be the last stupid comment made about Kobe.

That's a HUGE rock!

I think his comments were perfectly okay, because he prefaced it with "From a business perspective..". However, people arguing against Cuban are ignoring this. Strictly from a business perspective, NBA ratings will spike and it will be good for the league on that regard. However, in all other ways, the Kobe Bryant case is absolutely bad for the NBA. Cuban's not disagreeing with that either.

Boy the media (and undoubtedly, some people here) love twisting things.

:yack: @ that ring.

I haven't really been keeping up with this case but on Howard Stern this morning and they were discussing some article (or maybe it was just a rumor) saying or speculating that the consensual part was oral and the non-consensual part was anal.

Is the hearing going to be webcast anywhere today?

Terrific article on "FAQ's in the Kobe Case" is here. (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/story?id=1591170)
Written by a legal expert. Covers a lot of the same ground as what Lurker Dan has posted here. Mad props to you Dan! Hope the Bar went OK. :)

Should be an interesting 10 minutes on TV tonight.


ps: Marc Cuban is an idiot for saying what he did yesterday. I liked him until then.

Originally posted by zuffy
That's a HUGE rock!

Yeah...one that I'm sure if given the chance someone wouldn't hesitate to try and take from her. I've read stories of ladies having fingers chopped off for rings worth $3.5 millon less than that's worth.

Originally posted by Decker
Terrific article on "FAQ's in the Kobe Case" is here. (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/story?id=1591170)
Written by a legal expert. Covers a lot of the same ground as what Lurker Dan has posted here. Mad props to you Dan! Hope the Bar went OK. :)

Should be an interesting 10 minutes on TV tonight.


ps: Marc Cuban is an idiot for saying what he did yesterday. I liked him until then.

Thanks for the link, but why is Cuban an idiot? Do you really think that ratings will not be higher for at least the first few Lakers games of the season?

From a buisness perspective Cuban is right. I don't know why anything Cuban does surprises anybody anymore. IMO Stern is just as excited for the ratings his league will recieve but cant say so in front of the cameras.

Originally posted by damn_skippy
From a buisness perspective Cuban is right. I don't know why anything Cuban does surprises anybody anymore. IMO Stern is just as excited for the ratings his league will recieve but cant say so in front of the cameras.

Absolutely. You know that if it would help ratings without damaging the "clean" NBA Stern has always pushed, he'd let Kobe ass**** some girl at center court during halftime.

Originally posted by AndyCapps
You know that if it would help ratings without damaging the "clean" NBA Stern has always pushed, he'd let Kobe ass**** some girl at center court during halftime.
-eek-
http://realgm.com/code/furballs/images/shaq_ferry.jpg

Found this online. Might not be work safe.. some of it in bad taste. eh. whatever. just something to kill the time with.

http://www.finerside.com/la-rape-show/larapeshow.htm

Interesting that the prosecutor was seriously contemplating charging Kobe with kidnapping. I know it's very early, but it is not looking very good for Kobe.

Originally posted by Pharoh
Interesting that the prosecutor was seriously contemplating charging Kobe with kidnapping. I know it's very early, but it is not looking very good for Kobe.

I think he is contemplating this so he can charge Kobe with the 3rd degree or whatever the statue states. The way I read the law (and mind you I am a legal canary, I have seen every LA Law and am ready to take the bar because of this) but the 4th degree (or whatever they call them) was more appropriate to the case.

Originally posted by Fokker's Feint
Thanks for the link, but why is Cuban an idiot? Do you really think that ratings will not be higher for at least the first few Lakers games of the season?
Ratings might be higher, but no way is a rape charge on a superstar "great" for the NBA. It reinforces the widely held belief that the players are jerks and thugs and it makes everyone look bad. I also object for using the word Great in any context when talking about a rape case. It isn't for Kobe, his wife, the girl.
Even if what he says has some truth in it, it isn't smart to say that. It's "great" for Kobe's defense team as well; lots of money and publicity. Somehow I doubt you'll hear many of them saying that on TV, though

So was there a formal charge? I didn't hear anything to that effect except for the preliminary hearing set for 10/9/03...

Originally posted by devilshalo
So was there a formal charge? I didn't hear anything to that effect except for the preliminary hearing set for 10/9/03...

Pretty sure they waived reading; makes tons of sense to do so (at least to my uneducated L&O/OJ-correspondence-course mind).....

Saw the teen choice award thing tonight. There was no MLK Jr quote. Was that said after or edited out or something?
BTW he seemed genuinely touched by the show of support. Sorry, but I still like the guy and hope he pulls through this (assuming he's innocent, of course).

Originally posted by Decker
Ratings might be higher, but no way is a rape charge on a superstar "great" for the NBA. It reinforces the widely held belief that the players are jerks and thugs and it makes everyone look bad.

Bad to you, maybe, but just look at the popularity of Iverson to see that the " thug" image sells.

Originally posted by Duran
Bad to you, maybe, but just look at the popularity of Iverson to see that the " thug" image sells.

As one sports writer put it, this will NOT help Kobe in way of endorsements, comparing him to Iverson. He said something that made me laugh: Iverson's past controversies have always been the cool type, fights, weed, and naked women outside of his house. Even teenagers know sexual assault isn't cool.

And I agree about the difference in the issues. However, if Kobe is exonerated, I do think that it will help him because Americans latch on to sports figures who are more like them, who they can relate to; someone with a flaw, who's made a mistake and can try to rise above it.

That's the appeal in Iverson. He's my favorite player by far, not because I think he's crystal clean, but because he seems to have flaws yet he's able to stay above it, play his game and excel.

Kobe Bryant has always had the perfect cookie cutter life: NBA father, international upbringing, a 1050 SAT score (woop-dee-doo, that was my score in 8th grade), and everything else he wanted. If he is acquitted, like I said above, this flaw will make him more loved, because it'll humanize him a little bit.

Originally posted by mytzplyx
If he is acquitted, like I said above, this flaw will make him more loved, because it'll humanize him a little bit.

Loved by who? I don't know about anyone else, but I have a hard time "loving" someone who cheated on his wife. In this case, humanizing him isn't a good thing. Something that humanized him in a good way was seeing him cry after the Lakers were eliminated. This kind of humanization makes him fit in with other lowlife scums who cheat on their spouses.

[Insert rant that kids should have parents, neighbors, and teachers as heroes, and not sports stars.]

Originally posted by Decker
Written by a legal expert. Covers a lot of the same ground as what Lurker Dan has posted here. Mad props to you Dan! Hope the Bar went OK. :) Thank you, thank you... :) Bar exam, while not necessarily ok, is over. :)

<BLOCKQUOTE> • Quoth Decker •<HR SIZE=1>I also object for using the word Great in any context when talking about a rape case. It isn't for Kobe, his wife, the girl.<HR SIZE=1></BLOCKQUOTE>

He didn't say it was. Cuban's comments are not in support of this, but rather an indictment of the society that <b>will</b> undoubtedly feed off of this story in such a way as to increase ratings for the NBA. Everything he said is a reasonable conclusion to the events. Those angry with him should be angry with our culture. He's just the messenger, reminding us how f'd up our obsession with celebrity is. One look at the news coverage is all you need to know he's likely right. In fact, the way his words have been so twisted and the "outrage" at his comments are proof enough that this thing will be huge. If innocent, ratings/sales will go up. If guilty, ratings/sales will go up until he's put behind bars at which time people will tune in to see how the Lakers do without him. Remember, more people tune in just to see the Lakers lose than to see anyone else win. And on the off chance Cuban's assumption isn't accurate, I see nothing wrong with him bringing out into the open the sad truth of these events. I applaud him for not hiding behind it like some.

[Insert rant about sports writers "justifying" adultery as acceptable behavior because it's so prevalent in society. I have nothing against Kobe and don't really care much about his personal life (unless he's committed a crime), but I'm tired of sports writers trying to make the destruction of a family inconsequential.]

das

re: the ring

I still don't understand why anyone would want to carry around a huge, sparkling reminder of their spouse's infidelity and their own public humilation, even if it's a $4 million reminder.

McGrady's jealousy of Kobe shines through: http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/story?id=1592011

Originally posted by Aphex Twin
McGrady's jealousy of Kobe shines through: http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/story?id=1592011 What article did you read? :lol: There isn't one note of jealousy in that article. The guy was asked questions, and appeared to give pretty good answers.

Oh, wait, I forgot. If you don't say Kobe's great and didn't do it, you must have some animosity towards him. My bad. -ohbfrank-

Yeah, McGrady is a peer and does not show any support for Kobe. Every single NBA player has shown nothing but support for Kobe: Lebron, Pargo, Luke Walton, Karl Malone, Phil Jackson, but McGrady takes this as a opportunity to talk crap on Kobe.

Originally posted by LurkerDan
What article did you read? :lol: There isn't one note of jealousy in that article. The guy was asked questions, and appeared to give pretty good answers.

Oh, wait, I forgot. If you don't say Kobe's great and didn't do it, you must have some animosity towards him. My bad. -ohbfrank-

Originally posted by Aphex Twin
Yeah, McGrady is a peer and does not show any support for Kobe. Every single NBA player has shown nothing but support for Kobe: Lebron, Pargo, Luke Walton, Karl Malone, Phil Jackson, but McGrady takes this as a opportunity to talk crap on Kobe.

Duh!
Pargo, Walton and Malone are Kobe's teammates and Jackson is his coach.

As for Lebron, he's just a jackass who doesn't know his role and when to shut his trap.

Originally posted by Meatpants
re: the ring

I still don't understand why anyone would want to carry around a huge, sparkling reminder of their spouse's infidelity and their own public humilation, even if it's a $4 million reminder.



That's exactly what i was thinking. Everytime she looks at that ring she has to think of the girl in colorado.

Originally posted by Aphex Twin
McGrady takes this as a opportunity to talk crap on Kobe.

I think you read a different article than the rest of us. :hscratch:

Originally posted by Aphex Twin
Yeah, McGrady is a peer and does not show any support for Kobe. Every single NBA player has shown nothing but support for Kobe: Lebron, Pargo, Luke Walton, Karl Malone, Phil Jackson, but McGrady takes this as a opportunity to talk crap on Kobe.


That isn't what I read.

Originally posted by Aphex Twin
Yeah, McGrady is a peer and does not show any support for Kobe. Every single NBA player has shown nothing but support for Kobe: Lebron, Pargo, Luke Walton, Karl Malone, Phil Jackson, but McGrady takes this as a opportunity to talk crap on Kobe. Talking crap? Was it this: "If you're married, stick with your wife,'' McGrady said Thursday. "Don't do anything crazy that's going to cause problems in your household. Keep a happy family.'' Hmmm. That doesn't sound like crap. Sounds like pretty obvious stuff to me.

Maybe it was this: "I hope he beats this and he can get back on the right track, stay focused and just concentrate on basketball,'' McGrady said. Hmmm. That is talking crap?

Well, maybe it was this: "Kobe's a great guy, he really is, and I never thought this would occur,'' McGrady said. "I just thought he was that perfect guy with a good, clean image." Hmmmm. Still failing to see the crap here.

I know, it must have been this: "One minute, you're on top of the world. And then the next, endorsement people are backing off of you.'' No, guess not.

Wait, I got it! It's this: "Hopefully, a lot of fans tune into what we're doing over there in Puerto Rico and not so much worrying about what Kobe's going through,'' said McGrady, who will be making his debut in international competition. "Every time you turn on the channel, it's Kobe this, Kobe that. Hopefully, we can draw some of that attention to us.'' Yep, the nerve of that guy! Can you believe he'd rather have basketball fans pay attention to basketball! Sheesh!

:lol:

I wonder what the public outcry will be if Kobe is convicted and is somehow still eligible to play for the 2004 Olympic team.

Originally posted by LurkerDan
Talking crap? Was it this: "If you're married, stick with your wife,'' McGrady said Thursday. "Don't do anything crazy that's going to cause problems in your household. Keep a happy family.'' Hmmm. That doesn't sound like crap. Sounds like pretty obvious stuff to me.

Maybe it was this: "I hope he beats this and he can get back on the right track, stay focused and just concentrate on basketball,'' McGrady said. Hmmm. That is talking crap?

Well, maybe it was this: "Kobe's a great guy, he really is, and I never thought this would occur,'' McGrady said. "I just thought he was that perfect guy with a good, clean image." Hmmmm. Still failing to see the crap here.

I know, it must have been this: "One minute, you're on top of the world. And then the next, endorsement people are backing off of you.'' No, guess not.

Wait, I got it! It's this: "Hopefully, a lot of fans tune into what we're doing over there in Puerto Rico and not so much worrying about what Kobe's going through,'' said McGrady, who will be making his debut in international competition. "Every time you turn on the channel, it's Kobe this, Kobe that. Hopefully, we can draw some of that attention to us.'' Yep, the nerve of that guy! Can you believe he'd rather have basketball fans pay attention to basketball! Sheesh!

:lol:

No, it's none of the thngs that you mention. I don't think you get the picture. It's McGrady's holier-than-thou condescending and patronizing tone. He has always thought he's better than Kobe and that Kobe does not give him respect, even though McGrady has never won anything in his life or taken his team anywhere.
He also shows his super egotism in the article, talking in the third person:
"You'd hear everywhere, 'Who's the better player out of Kobe and T-Mac,''' McGrady said. "It just so happened you had those guys going for the scoring race, just competing every night at a high level. I thought it was good for the league.''

That is what I'm talking about and what you failed to grasp.

Originally posted by Aphex Twin
No, it's none of the thngs that you mention. I don't think you get the picture. It's McGrady's holier-than-thou condescending and patronizing tone. He has always thought he's better than Kobe and that Kobe does not give him respect, even though McGrady has never won anything in his life or taken his team anywhere.
He also shows his super egotism in the article, talking in the third person:
"You'd hear everywhere, 'Who's the better player out of Kobe and T-Mac,''' McGrady said. "It just so happened you had those guys going for the scoring race, just competing every night at a high level. I thought it was good for the league.''

That is what I'm talking about and what you failed to grasp. Man, you are like a train wreck; I know that responding is just a waste of time yet I continue to do so. :lol:

So, your problem is not the article; it's just some personal feelings you have about T-Mac? Because as I pointed out (and to use your language, what you failed to grasp), his "jealousy doesn't shine through" in the article, nor does he "take this as a opportunity to talk crap on Kobe". He did neither of those things. You have not shown one thing int the article that suggests this, and I am not the only person in this thread who thinks you're off-base here.

The funny thing is, I didn't quote that particular statement by McGrady because I didn't remotely see that as him saying anything about Kobe. One, people do debate who's better. You obviously do not, but it isn't talking crap about Kobe to suggest that T-Mac is better. Two, he is talking about the scoring race last season and how it was good for the league. That isn't talking smack or showing jealousy. Hell, he didn't even mention that it was him, not Kobe, who won that race.

But you know, I think T-mac may be better than Kobe. he may not be. Hard to tell; he doesn't play with Shaq. But I guess suggesting that is talking crap, and my jealousy is shining through.

Just for my own edification, would you mind telling me how old you are?

<BLOCKQUOTE> • Quoth LurkerDan •<HR SIZE=1>and I am not the only person in this thread who thinks you're off-base here.<HR SIZE=1></BLOCKQUOTE>

That much is certain. I would have posted so myself earlier, but I'm slowly learning the futility of arguing against statements with no basis in reality. If you pass the Bar, though, I guess you better get used to this. ;)

das

Originally posted by das Monkey
That much is certain. I would have posted so myself earlier, but I'm slowly learning the futility of arguing against statements with no basis in reality. If you pass the Bar, though, I guess you better get used to this. ;)

das Yeah. You'd think law school would've taught me that, but it's one thing I never learn. The good thing about this stuff and law is that there's a judge who can tell the other lawyer to shut up. :)

It's obvious that your Laker-hating bias shields you from any objectivity towards Kobe. I'm not going to debate with you anymore as it is a waste of my time and everyone reading this thread. Try to see things without pushing your anti-Laker agenda next time.

Originally posted by LurkerDan
Man, you are like a train wreck; I know that responding is just a waste of time yet I continue to do so. :lol:

So, your problem is not the article; it's just some personal feelings you have about T-Mac? Because as I pointed out (and to use your language, what you failed to grasp), his "jealousy doesn't shine through" in the article, nor does he "take this as a opportunity to talk crap on Kobe". He did neither of those things. You have not shown one thing int the article that suggests this, and I am not the only person in this thread who thinks you're off-base here.

The funny thing is, I didn't quote that particular statement by McGrady because I didn't remotely see that as him saying anything about Kobe. One, people do debate who's better. You obviously do not, but it isn't talking crap about Kobe to suggest that T-Mac is better. Two, he is talking about the scoring race last season and how it was good for the league. That isn't talking smack or showing jealousy. Hell, he didn't even mention that it was him, not Kobe, who won that race.

But you know, I think T-mac may be better than Kobe. he may not be. Hard to tell; he doesn't play with Shaq. But I guess suggesting that is talking crap, and my jealousy is shining through.

Just for my own edification, would you mind telling me how old you are?

Originally posted by Aphex Twin
It's obvious that your Laker-hating bias shields you from any objectivity towards Kobe. I'm not going to debate with you anymore as it is a waste of my time and everyone reading this thread. Try to see things without pushing your anti-Laker agenda next time. :lol: rotfl :lol: rotfl :lol:

Edited to add: you still haven't told me how old you are...

rotfl

OMG <s>Kelly</s> Kobe!!!

das

Originally posted by Aphex Twin
Yeah, McGrady is a peer and does not show any support for Kobe. Every single NBA player has shown nothing but support for Kobe: Lebron, Pargo, Luke Walton, Karl Malone, Phil Jackson, but McGrady takes this as a opportunity to talk crap on Kobe.

I agree with most others, that's not what I read...

I am a Laker-lover and I have been a Kobe fan since he has been a Laker... Re-read the article dude, he was not dissin' Kobe, he was actually wishing for the best...

And it's not looking good for Kobe, let reality set in... (unfortunately :mad: )

Originally posted by Aphex Twin
Try to see things without pushing your anti-Laker agenda next time.

Try to see things without pushing your Laker fanboy agenda next time.

Originally posted by evenflowddt
As for Lebron, he's just a jackass who doesn't know his role and when to shut his trap.

Sing it my fellow Lebron hater :up:

Originally posted by Aphex Twin
It's obvious that your Laker-hating bias shields you from any objectivity towards Kobe. I'm not going to debate with you anymore as it is a waste of my time and everyone reading this thread. Try to see things without pushing your anti-Laker agenda next time.

:lol: I almost fell out of my chair reading this. Would you be so kind as to point out where in that post by LurkerDan you quoted was there any evidence of an anti-Laker bias? Sometimes you just have to throw in the towel with these guys.

Originally posted by Fokker's Feint
:lol: I almost fell out of my chair reading this. Would you be so kind as to point out where in that post by LurkerDan you quoted was there any evidence of an anti-Laker bias? Sometimes you just have to throw in the towel with these guys. You see, you really have to read between the lines to see my bias. For instance, where I said "That doesn't sound like crap", I didn't say "I love Kobe, and want to have his child!"

Originally posted by LurkerDan
You see, you really have to read between the lines to see my bias. For instance, where I said "That doesn't sound like crap", I didn't say "I love Kobe, and what to have his child!"

rotfl

Originally posted by LurkerDan
You see, you really have to read between the lines to see my bias. For instance, where I said "That doesn't sound like crap", I didn't say "I love Kobe, and what to have his child!"

Geez, Dan, what do you have against the Celtics, and why are you so P'ed off at Antoine........?

:)

Originally posted by Jobronie
Geez, Dan, what do you have against the Celtics, and why are you so P'ed off at Antoine........?

:) Nice, very nice. :)



[Aphex Twin can't see]Actually, I'm a Celtic fan. That should explain everything![/Aphex Twin can't see]

http://www.nbc4.tv/sports/2392225/detail.html?treets=la&tid=2651907710813&tml=la_12pm&tmi=la_12pm_6143_02000108082003&ts=H

Bryant Works On Public Image

POSTED: 10:36 a.m. PDT August 8, 2003
UPDATED: 10:54 a.m. PDT August 8, 2003

LOS ANGELES -- While his attorneys are working to build his case, Kobe Bryant is working to build his public image.

The Lakers star went to Disneyland with his wife Vanessa Thursday night.

The two have recently been seen together around the Southland. Experts said this is part of the strategy to keep Bryant's image positive as he faces charges of sexually assaulting a 19-year-old woman in a Colorado hotel.

Due to a gag order from Eagle County, Colo., Judge Frederick Gannett, very little information is expected to be released regarding the case until the next court date.


They actually have a video of Vanessa & Kobe riding Splash Mountain, if you click on the link :lol:

Chris

Too bad they took out the part of the Pirates Of The Carribean ride where the pirates chase wenches around and around, Kobe would probably have appreciated that.

(ducks to avoid lenthy diatribe from Aphex Twin about how anti-Laker I am)
;)

Originally posted by Decker
Saw the teen choice award thing tonight. There was no MLK Jr quote. Was that said after or edited out or something?
BTW he seemed genuinely touched by the show of support. Sorry, but I still like the guy and hope he pulls through this (assuming he's innocent, of course).

Answering my own question:

Friday, August 8

Network didn't feel message was compatible with award

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ESPN.com news services


NEW YORK -- FOX television said Friday that the network omitted part of Kobe Bryant's acceptance speech during the 2003 Teen Choice Awards program that aired Wednesday.

The program was taped Saturday and aired just hours after Bryant appeared in an Eagle, Colo., courtroom for the preliminary hearing in his sexual assault case.

Bryant was accepting the award for favorite male sports figure. Part of his acceptance speech included the claim "an injustice anywhere is an injustice everywhere."

A FOX spokesman said that the network felt the remark was not suited to accepting his award, and was edited from the broadcast.

The rest of Bryant's remarks did make the show. Those included Bryant saying "we're flying through some dark clouds" now, but that with God's will, "the sun will rise and shine again."

Underscoring Bryant's Teen Choice Awards appearance is the ongoing debate over whether Bryant is using the media and his celebrity status to promote his side of the case.

Bryant's appearance on the show was his latest high-profile sighting since news of his legal problems surfaced in July. Bryant attended ESPN's ESPY Awards ceremony on July 16 -- an appearance that reportedly made Pamela Mackey, one of Bryant's attorneys, consider quitting as part of his legal counsel. Bryant also made headlines with his purchase of a $4 million ring for his wife, Vanessa.

No one but Kobe and the girl know the truth, discussion and conjecture really means nothing

Either the girl is doing it purely for the money (she will be able to sell her story for millions, such is the beauty of American voyeuristic culture) OR Kobe got his ego bruised by a rejection and raped her

either way the media circus is sickening

Originally posted by Original Desmond
) OR Kobe got his ego bruised by a rejection and raped her

either way the media circus is sickening

I agree.

Does the media do this in Australia?

The actual MLK, Jr. quote is a little different than what Kobe said:

Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere.
http://www.quotedb.com/quote.php?quoteid=47

The difference is slight in words, but great in meaning, imho.

This does prove, however, that the King family must be Anti-Laker. -rolleyes-

Am I hearing things, or did I hear a rap by kobe on the way to work on the radio this morning. The chorus was K-O-B-E-I-L-U-V or something like that..

I'm not kidding I don't think, but I may have heard it on a talk station, and missed the part where they were talking about it being a bit... But it seriously sounded real, and I believe kobe was the one rapping..

Good related editorial I read in the paper this morning about about whether or not victims in rape cases should have their names revealed:

Naming rape victims may liberate mostly the rapist (http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/opinion/orl-edpparker10081003aug10,0,3297568.column?coll=orl-opinion-headlines)

Here's the part I absolutely agree with:

I do worry, however, about the falsely accused ordinary man who has no such media access and whose community will remember him only in terms of rape. In fairness to innocent men, as well as to raped women, we should name no one until a verdict is reached.

http://www.msnbc.com/local/knbc/A1741603.asp?0na=x2223130-

Authorities: Kobe Bryant's 911 Call Made For Medical Assistance For Wife

LOS ANGELES, 7:43 a.m. PDT August 14, 2003 - The 911 call Kobe Bryant made the day before he surrendered to police on a sexual assault accusation was "for medical assistance for his wife," authorities said.

Documents released Wednesday by the city attorney's office also indicate Bryant's mother was also at the residence at the time of the July 3 call. Officials provided no additional details.

The Los Angeles Lakers star hung up the phone without talking after making the call at 12:25 a.m., but a dispatcher called back and spoke to three people, including Bryant. Paramedics arrived at 12:40 a.m., police said previously.

The documents released Wednesday were supplied to several media outlets which had requested transcripts of the 911 calls. Those requests were denied.

Bryant made the call the day before he returned to Colorado on July 4 to surrender to police. He has been charged with one count of felony sexual assault against a 19-year-old employee at the Lodge & Spa at Cordillera near Edwards, Colo. He had been in Colorado for surgery on his knee.

Bryant, who is free on $25,000 bail, is scheduled to return to Eagle County Court for an Oct. 9 preliminary hearing. He has said his accuser had sex with him willingly.

Following the 911 call from Bryant's home, police determined there was no criminal conduct and no report was taken. Medics treated a female at the house but did not need to take her to the hospital, according to Vickie Cleary, emergency services manager for the Newport Beach Fire Department.

No further information was available.

Meanwhile, racist fliers were scattered Tuesday on lawns and windshields in Eagle, Colo., where Bryant is set to go on trial on sexual assault charges.

Mark Potok, spokesman for the Southern Poverty Law Center, which monitors white supremacist groups, said the National Alliance, which claimed responsibility for the messages, often distributes such fliers.

"I think they see that the Kobe Bryant case is getting very different reactions from white America and black America," Potok said.

Some residents say they are offended because the fliers attempt to assert a racial wedge in an otherwise harmonious community.

"It does bother me ... when you see something like that thrown in your yard. I don't think they should have done it ... (we have) nothing against blacks, nothing against them whatsoever," said Trish Ross, Eagle Resident.


Chris

Originally posted by Groucho
In fairness to innocent men, as well as to raped women, we should name no one until a verdict is reached.

I've been saying that not only during this case, but also from the first time I heard about the process of keeping the victim's name a secret while the accuser's name get splattered all over.

http://www.local6.com/news/2411873/detail.html?treets=orlpn&tid=2651907710813&tml=orlpn_12pm&tmi=orlpn_12pm_1_10550108182003&ts=H

New Judge May Get Kobe Bryant Case
Felony Cases Must Be Sent To District Court Before Judge Selection

POSTED: 9:08 a.m. EDT August 18, 2003

EAGLE, Colo. -- If Kobe Bryant's case goes to trial -- a judge with less than a year on the bench could receive it under a rotating system used to assign cases.

District Judge Tom Moorhead said he's in line to preside over the case if the NBA superstar goes to trial on a felony sexual assault charge -- but that could change.

A spokeswoman for the state court system said a felony case must be sent to District Court before the selection of a judge is final. She said speculation about which judge would have a case would be premature now.

Meanwhile, tax records show Kobe Bryant has shutdown his charitable foundation.

IRS records obtained by The Smoking Gun Web site show he disbanded the foundation earlier this year. Launched in 1998, the Kobe Bryant Foundation listed its purpose as the "sponsorship of programs to benefit children and prevent child abuse."

Bryant donated more than $300,000 to various charities before shutting his foundation.

But the contributions began plummeting in 2001, the year he got married. That year, his foundation gave only $10,000. Last year the foundation didn't donate any money.


That last paragraph bothers me! Does that mean he stopped giving money because he got married and now has a wife that needs a $4 million ring to keep her happy?

Chris

Originally posted by mrpayroll
http://www.local6.com/news/2411873/detail.html?treets=orlpn&tid=2651907710813&tml=orlpn_12pm&tmi=orlpn_12pm_1_10550108182003&ts=H


IRS records obtained by The Smoking Gun Web site show he disbanded the foundation earlier this year. Launched in 1998, the Kobe Bryant Foundation listed its purpose as the "sponsorship of programs to benefit children and prevent child abuse."

Bryant donated more than $300,000 to various charities before shutting his foundation.

But the contributions began plummeting in 2001, the year he got married. That year, his foundation gave only $10,000. Last year the foundation didn't donate any money.


That last paragraph bothers me! Does that mean he stopped giving money because he got married and now has a wife that needs a $4 million ring to keep her happy?

Chris

I believe that means he was using his charitable foundation to pay his relatives and Vanessa put a stop to that. I wonder why they don't like her?

jr

Maybe I just haven't been tuning into media outlets like I had been earlier, but I think the media coverage is (finally) dying down a bit with this. Innocent or guilty, Kobe shouldn't have to deal with the public scrutiny he's been dealing with. As Cuban said, people like train-wreck TV. What's that leading to? Every detail that could make Kobe look bad is being broadcast and printed at every possible moment.

As for McGrady, however that article is interpreted, I think it is CLEAR that McGrady meant well. AI has shown his support by refusing to judge Kobe's situation in any way. Pretty much, every NBA player HAS come out and supported Kobe when called upon by the media.

A final note...I think Kobe should be on the US 2004 Olympic Team if circumstances allow. This shouldn't change that at all.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=577&ncid=577&e=3&u=/nm/20030821/sp_nm/nba_bryant_threat_dc

Iowa Man Arrested for Threat in Kobe Bryant Case
1 hour, 17 minutes ago

DENVER (Reuters) - A 22-year-old Iowa man was arrested for leaving a threatening message for a female witness in the Kobe Bryant (news) rape case, saying he would kill her, according to an indictment unsealed on Thursday.

The witness who received the message on her answering machine was not identified by authorities and it was not immediately known if it was the woman who made the charges against Bryant.

John William Roche, of Iowa City, Iowa, threatened to "kill" and "stick a coat hanger up your (expletive)...," according to the indictment that was issued on Wednesday.

The Los Angeles Lakers (news) basketball star has denied raping the woman, who worked as a concierge at a posh resort where he was staying in late June. He said the encounter was consensual and his only wrongdoing was adultery.

The woman has been vilified in some circles. She has been identified on the Internet, but not by mainstream media.

A federal court clerk said Roche has been arrested and will be brought to Colorado for a yet to be determined court appearance. If convicted, Roche could go to prison for up to five years and fined up to $250,000.


I wonder how they found out it was him. Did he leave his callback # on the message? :lol:

Chris

The judge ruled the arrest warrant and related materials should be unsealed. He said other items requested by media attorneys -- including the search warrant and other documents that could provide details of the case -- will remain sealed.

``The court concludes that there is a substantial probability that the defendant's right to a fair trial would be prejudiced by disclosure of the affidavit and search warrant materials and that such prejudice could be prevented by non-disclosure,'' Gannett wrote.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=ap-lakers-bryantcase&prov=ap&type=lgns

Chris

http://www.nbc4.tv/sports/2423282/detail.html?treets=la&tid=2651907710813&tml=la_4pm&tmi=la_4pm_7459_06000008212003&ts=H

Bryant Case: Man Arrested, Judge To Unseal Arrest Warrant
Man Arrested For Allegedly Making Threatening Calls To Witness

POSTED: 2:54 p.m. PDT August 21, 2003
UPDATED: 3:42 p.m. PDT August 21, 2003

LOS ANGELES -- A judge ruled Thursday that the arrest warrant in the Kobe Bryant sexual assault case should be released to the public but gave attorneys 15 days to appeal.

The documents have been sealed since the Los Angeles Lakers star was arrested last month, but media organizations have sought their release from Eagle County, Colo., Judge Frederick Gannett.

The judge ruled that the arrest warrant and related materials should be unsealed. He said other items requested by media attorneys -- including the search warrant and other documents that could provide details of the case -- will remain sealed.

"The court concludes that there is a substantial probability that the defendant's right to a fair trial would be prejudiced by disclosure of the affidavit and search warrant materials and that such prejudice could be prevented by non-disclosure," Gannett wrote.

The judge also said he is not inclined to grant any defense request to move the trial, saying the extensive publicity "diminishes the remedy of a change of venue."

"The court does not find it reasonable to compel defendant to submit to a change of venue in order to preserve his right to an impartial jury," he said.

Bryant, who remains free on a $25,000 bond, is scheduled to return to Eagle, Colo., for an Oct. 9 preliminary hearing, where Gannett will decide whether there is enough evidence for a trial. If he decides that there is, the case will be handed over to a district court judge.

Bryant has said his 19-year-old accuser had consensual sex with him June 30 at the Lodge & Spa at Cordillera, Colo., where she worked and he was a guest.

The intense media attention surrounding the Bryant case has led the court to issue some unusual rules. The only document released so far has been Bryant's booking photograph, taken after he turned himself in on July 4.

Gannett has also threatened to bar any news organization that identifies Bryant's accuser from his courtroom. He did allow cameras in the courtroom for Bryant's initial court appearance Aug. 6, over the objections of defense attorneys.

Reporters have been ordered not to interview people inside the courthouse and or take photographs and video of witnesses, potential jurors and Bryant's accuser and her family.

Report: Bryant Attempts To Pay Off Accuser

Bryant is also reportedly trying to keep the case from going to court at all, according to The National Enquirer. The magazine reported that Bryant is prepared to pay $5 million or more to the alleged victim.

"There is nothing illegal about Team Kobe offering a civil settlement to the woman, but Kobe's lawyers cannot tell her to change her testimony or refuse to testify. That's a felony. It's called bribing a victim," Craig Silverman, a Denver criminal defense attorney, told The Enquirer.

The Enquirer also says that the Braynt's defense team is at the same time trying to get the criminal charges against their client reduced.

Man Arrested For Allegedly Making Threatening Calls To Witness

In other developments, the U.S. Attorney for the District of Colorado, John Suthers, and Special Agent in charge of the FBI's Rocky Mountain Division, Phillip Reid, announced Thursday the indictment and subsequent arrest of John Roche, 22, of Iowa City, Iowa, for making a threatening telephone call in regards to the Kobe Bryant sexual assault case.

Roche was arrested without incident at his residence.

According to the indictment, returned on Aug. 20 by a federal grand jury in Denver, Colo., Roche allegedly made a telephone call in late July from Iowa to Eagle County, Colo., making a death threat directed at a witness in the Bryant case.

"To protect the integrity of the judicial process, threats against witnesses must be taken seriously," Suthers said. "As to this particular case, it is important that the public allow the judicial process to run its course free of threats against any participant in the proceedings."

"Today's arrest should serve as a strong warning to those who think it appropriate to threaten the judicial officers or witnesses in this case," Reid said Thursday.

Roche will make his initial appearance before a U.S. magistrate judge in Davenport, Iowa. He will then be ordered to in court in Denver, Colo., for arraignment. The government will not seek pre-trial detention in this case.

If convicted, Roche faces up to 5 years in federal prison, and/or up to a $250,000 fine.


Chris

http://www.nbc4.tv/sports/2426455/detail.html?treets=la&tid=2651907710813&tml=la_12pm&tmi=la_12pm_6065_02000108222003&ts=H

Police Visited Home Of Bryant's Accuser
Father Of Accuser Called Police To Report Suspicious Incidents

POSTED: 10:42 a.m. PDT August 22, 2003
UPDATED: 11:26 a.m. PDT August 22, 2003

LOS ANGELES -- The father of Kobe Bryant's accuser has called police twice in the past three weeks to report suspicious incidents, including one where someone apparently slipped into the home and locked up the family dog.

The family left the home with two dogs locked inside the morning of Aug. 14, according to police records reviewed Friday. When they returned about an hour later, the more aggressive dog was locked in an upstairs bathroom. Nothing was missing and there were no signs of forced entry, according to the police report.

"This officer advised (the father), 'Maybe it would be a good idea to have all the locks changed due to someone may have a key,"' Sgt. Gary Ward, Eagle's acting police chief, said in the report.

"(The father) thought a bug may have been placed in the home. None located at this time."

A police officer offered to come and check the home, but the father said no. Ward was out of the office and not immediately available to comment.

Bryant, 24, is charged with raping a 19-year-old employee at an Edwards resort June 30. The Los Angeles Lakers star, who says the two had consensual sex, faces an Oct. 9 preliminary hearing to determine whether there will be a trial on a felony sexual assault charge.

The case has drawn extraordinary scrutiny to this mountain community. Bryant's accuser has been identified on Web sites and by at least one radio show host but most media outlets, including The Associated Press, have not disclosed her name or that of family members.

In the other police incident, the woman's father said a man stopped at the house July 30 and offered to wash the windows. The father refused and the man left without stopping at any nearby homes, records show.

Both police reports said the father wanted the incidents on the record on the advice of his attorney.

Krista Flannigan, spokeswoman for the district attorney, said nothing at this point suggested any attempts to tamper with a witness and the reports were not being investigated.

On Thursday, federal authorities arrested a 22-year-old University of Iowa student and charged him with threatening to kill Bryant's accuser.

John Roche left a profanity-laced message July 27 on the family's answering machine, according to a grand jury indictment. The caller, described by a friend as a "sports fanatic," threatened to assault the woman with a coat hanger and repeatedly said he would kill her.

Roche was arrested as he pulled up to his Iowa City apartment in a sport-utility vehicle. It was the first arrest of its kind in the high-profile case. He was arrested without incident at his residence.

Jeff Dorschner, spokesman for the U.S. Attorney's Office in Denver, confirmed Bryant's accuser was the target. He said Roche posted $250,000 unsecured bond at a court appearance late Thursday and was released.

Roche agreed to appear Sept. 2 in U.S. District Court in Denver, Dorschner said. Roche did not respond to telephone and e-mail messages.

More than two dozen letters have been sent to prosecutors and to the judge handling the Bryant case. The judge has acknowledged that some are death threats.

Asked if authorities hoped the arrest would discourage people from making threats or trying to influence the case, Dorschner said "absolutely." He refused to say how Roche was tracked down.

Elliot Schwind, 22, said he has known Roche since seventh grade and described him as a "sports fanatic." Schwind, a Loras College student, said Roche was in Dubuque for a golf tournament the weekend of July 27.

"We had been drinking since tee-off time at 11 a.m., so we were all pretty drunk at night when he called. I know he absolutely didn't remember making this call the next day," Schwind told The Daily Iowan.

"He is the least person from mean that I know, and I know he would never threaten anyone's life," he said.

Roche has been a full-time student in the liberal arts college at Iowa since 1999, said Mary Lou Miller, registrar administrator. He is charged with making a threatening telephone call across state lines and faces up to five years in prison and a $250,000 fine if he is convicted.

"I don't know if we can expect any other arrests. But there are investigations that are ongoing," Flannigan said.


Why do people (pyscho's) feel the need to do these kind of things? They don't know any more about the case than the rest of us, but we don't feel the need to do things like this. Let the courts do their jobs and hopefully the truth will come out and the guilty will be dealt with accordingly (that means the woman, as well as Kobe).

Chris

http://sports.excite.com/news/08222003/v6103.html

Unwelcome Notoriety: Guests Seek Bryant's Room


Aug 22, 3:41 PM (ET)

By JON SARCHE


EDWARDS, Colo. (AP) - It's a world of $5 tins of breath mints, wine tastings, croquet tournaments and art shows, where carefully cultivated insulation from the outside world is paramount.

The Lodge & Spa at Cordillera has the Ibanez suite and the Casals suite. Now there's an unofficial addition: the Kobe Bryant suite, where the NBA's most bankable superstar is accused of sexually assaulting a 19-year-old hotel concierge.

The case has brought attention in the form of unusually heavy weekday bookings, streams of reporters and camera crews to the guarded gatehouse and guests who want to book - or at least sneak a look at - Room 35.

The notoriety is far from welcome here, where customers pay $300 to $700 a night to relax in understated elegance amid sweeping views of the Rockies near the Vail ski resort.

Hotel managers are now refusing to speak to reporters, and allowed only a single photographer and TV cameraman a rigidly controlled visit to get file photos to share among the media.

Employees say they've been warned not to talk about what they know or might have heard about goings-on that night to the media or to the guests.

The tight lips are in keeping with a long-standing policy of discretion, said Kris Staaf, who is with a public relations firm hired by the hotel three days after Bryant was arrested.

"The privacy of the guests is something the hotel is very respectful of and we'd like to keep it that way," Staaf said.

Bryant checked into the lodge on June 30, one day before a scheduled knee surgery at a nearby clinic that caters to elite professional sports.

Accounts vary about what happened that night in the first-floor suite with its flagstone patio opening onto a manicured lawn. It ended with Bryant facing a felony sexual assault charge.

The Los Angeles Lakers star is free on bail, facing an Oct. 9 preliminary hearing at which a judge will decide if the evidence warrants sending the case to trial.

On Thursday, an Eagle County judge rejected a motion by several media organizations to release records that would detail the accusations.

Bryant's star status and the mystery surrounding the allegations have brought swarms of reporters and TV crews to Edwards, a town just down the hill from the Cordillera that is home to many who work in the ski and summer resorts dotted along Interstate 70, 125 miles west of Denver.

The case could boost business for years at Cordillera, said Todd Scholl, marketing director at the Canterbury Hotel in Indianapolis, where boxer Mike Tyson was convicted of raping a teenage beauty queen in 1991.

People still call the Canterbury asking to reserve the room where Tyson stayed, Scholl said, adding that the hotel refuses to do it.

"It will live with the property," Scholl said. "... People have a peculiar obsession with the bizarre."

Between the golf - four courses, designed by Jack Nicklaus, Hale Irwin, Tom Fazio and Dave Pelz - guided fly-fishing trips and seaweed wraps at the spa, there is quiet interest in the case among some guests, according to three Cordillera employees.

The employees said guests have asked about the case and the room. They also noted that weekday reservations were up, some from out-of-town journalists, and some from people they assumed were drawn by the notoriety.

None of the guests approached by reporters was any more willing to talk than the management, however.

"They don't want the publicity, wish it would go away," said one employee, a bartender. "There are some rich and powerful people up here who would rather not have their names associated with it."

Modeled after a Belgian estate, with white stucco walls, pine doors and a roof of native fieldstone and Chinese slate, the lodge sits high on a mountainside. The trademark isolation begins on the drive out of Edwards to the resort's lone gated entrance.

Through the gate, the well-maintained road winds past private homes at the end of long driveways. Deer graze among native grasses, sagebrush and trees.

In the lodge's lobby, a Steinway baby grand piano sits next to green leather-topped table with a wooden chessboard where workers saw Bryant playing chess with one of his entourage.

Bars and restaurants buzz with gossip in nearby towns including Vail, where some say the Cordillera is not considered part of the valley community.

"The only people that even see Cordillera are the members, workers and owners," said Rob Favreau, a waiter in nearby Avon. "The people who live here don't go to Cordillera. We don't associate with them."


These are so good, I couldn't make these up! :lol:

Chris

http://www.nbc4.tv/sports/2517576/detail.html?treets=la&tid=2651907710813&tml=&tmi=&ts=H

Lakers Coach Reportedly In Colo. On Night Of Alleged Assault
Jackson Tells Newspaper He Was On Motorcycle Trip

POSTED: 6:26 a.m. PDT September 29, 2003
UPDATED: 6:33 a.m. PDT September 29, 2003

LOS ANGELES -- The Los Angeles Lakers coach was reportedly in Eagle, Colo., on the night that one of his star players was alleged to have sexually assaulted a hotel employee there.

Phil Jackson tells the Chicago Tribune that Kobe Bryant was just six miles down the road; but Jackson said he wasn't aware of that at the time. Jackson had stopped in Eagle, Colo., to spend the night while on a motorcycle trip.

Bryant is accused of assaulting a woman on June 30 at the mountain resort where she worked. The Lakers star, who was in Eagle before having knee surgery, says the two had consensual sex.

Later this week, Bryant is to report to training camp with the Lakers in Honolulu. He's expected to appear for an Oct. 9 preliminary hearing, at which a judge will decide whether he will stand trial.


Chris

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=ap-bryantcase&prov=ap&type=lgns

Vail police ordered to give 911 records to Bryant's attorneys

By JON SARCHE, Associated Press Writer
September 29, 2003

EAGLE, Colo. (AP) -- In a victory for Kobe Bryant's attorneys, a judge Monday ordered Vail police to turn over records of 911 calls made from the home of the woman who accused the NBA superstar of rape.

Judge Frederick Gannett said the records, from calls made earlier this year, must be turned over to Bryant's defense team but cannot be released to the public.

The Vail police department, which handles emergency calls for Eagle County authorities, had asked Gannett to throw out a defense subpoena for the records, saying releasing them would violate an order from another judge.

Gannett said he was not bound by another judge's decision rejecting a newspaper's request to see the 911 records. It is unknown exactly when the calls were made.

The defense has sought the medical records of Bryant's accuser, leading to speculation they will try to make her emotional stability an issue if the case goes to trial. The woman was treated at a Greeley hospital earlier this year for an unspecified mental health issue.

Gannett also said that to give attorneys time to appeal, he will decide Thursday on all unsettled legal questions -- including whether Bryant's accuser will testify at the Oct. 9 preliminary hearing and whether her medical records will be released.

``It's just a matter of trying to sit down and integrate it all into one response,'' Gannett said. ``They're all related.''

Bryant was charged with felony sexual assault after the woman said he raped her June 30 at the mountain resort where she worked and he was a guest. The Los Angeles Lakers' guard, who is free on $25,000 bond, has said the two had consensual sex.

The preliminary hearing will determine whether Bryant will stand trial.

The defense again asked Gannett to keep the public out of the courtroom during the hearing, saying Bryant's rights override the public's right to know.

``This is an extraordinary case with unprecedented risk that Mr. Bryant will be deprived of his right to a fair trial,'' defense attorneys Hal Haddon and Pamela Mackey wrote.

Prosecutors say there are sufficient safeguards in place so potential jurors will not get enough information to form opinions.

There were several other developments, including a filing by prosecutors seeking to keep many court records in the case sealed. Prosecutors said media organizations lacked grounds to file the appeal.

Gannett also said there is a possibility the hearing would have to be postponed, but that he hoped to avoid that.

Meanwhile, a judge in Los Angeles delayed arraignment Monday for a Swiss bodybuilder charged with offering to kill Bryant's accuser.

The proceeding was postponed to Oct. 6 after both sides said the defense had not yet received all evidence.

Patrick Graber, 31, was charged last week with solicitation of murder and solicitation to dissuade a witness. He could get almost 10 years in prison.


Chris

Preliminary Hearing Begins in Bryant Case
8 minutes ago

By TIM DAHLBERG, AP Sports Writer

In a surprising move, Kobe Bryant's lawyers went ahead with a preliminary hearing Thursday to determine whether the NBA superstar should stand trial for rape.

Prosecutors were expected to outline evidence they say proves Bryant sexually assaulted a 19-year-old female employee at a resort June 30.

Legal experts had expected the defense to waive the hearing and head straight to trial rather than allow prosecutors to lay out their case publicly for the first time.

The judge had already rejected defense requests to have the woman testify in person and to see her medical records.

The hearing began as hundreds of reporters and spectators gathered outside the courthouse to catch a glimpse of Bryant.

He arrived with his lawyers amid tight security in a caravan of three SUVs and said nothing to the crowd. He had to take off a necklace and was checked with metal detectors before walking into the courtroom.

Bryant's attorneys huddled with Judge Frederick Gannett minutes before the hearing, then began the proceeding.

It was the first time details of the case would be revealed in court. The judge has issued a gag order.

The 25-year-old Bryant, charged with sexual assault July 18, faces a possible prison term of four years to life if convicted.

He left the Hawaii training camp of the Los Angeles Lakers on Wednesday. Gannett had ordered him to appear even if the preliminary hearing was waived.

Bryant was free on $25,000 bond. He was in Colorado in June to have knee surgery.
------------------------------

Interesting.. looks like they wanted to catch the prosecutors off-guard by going forward with the prelim since it was speculated that they would waive the hearing and go straight to trial.

I just finished reading the Newsweek article about him last night
http://www.msnbc.com/news/976158.asp?cp1=1
It was actually pretty interesting. I didn't know that his marriage and the fact that he refused to have a prenup had him estranged from his family and caused his agent to resign.

"But things didn’t sound heavenly at home. Vanessa hadn’t attended a game since late fall; everyone assumed it was just because of the baby. Bryant’s teammates noticed him interacting more with women on the road, but thought nothing of it, given his choirboy reputation. In fact, Bryant had been drifting away from his wife for some time, friends say.

By March, NEWSWEEK has learned, Bryant was in contact with a divorce lawyer. "


Couple of facts that I didn't know of. Also Bryant scored a 1080 on his SATs. Toss that in the useless information closet.

I don't understand letting the hearing go forward. Now we know her side of the story and the evidence against him and it will be months before we hear his defense.

The evidence makes him look very guilty. Though its obvious from the actions (very classless actions) of Kobe's lawyer that the destruction of the girl's character will be his defense.

The two things that bug me are the blood on his shirt and the fact he didn't get his story straight. I'm not sure the fact she is a slut will be enough to sway me that she didn't say no to sex with him in the room.

Originally posted by darkside
I'm not sure the fact she is a slut will be enough to sway me that she didn't say no to sex with him in the room.

It won't sway me in the least. Everyone has a right to say no, and that has to be respected or it's rape.

I'm keeping a totally open mind, and will not form an opinion one way or the other until I've seen/heard all the evidence, and gotten Kobe's side of the story.

Right now, it doesn't look good for Kobe. The physical evidence (bruises on her neck, face, vaginal tears etc.) seem to match her account of what happened. Kobe's defense will have to come up with something better than "she's a slut" to get around that. But of course, if they have a good strategy, they're not going to waste it in the preliminary hearing, so I'll wait until the trial before making any conclusions.

I really hope no one makes the lame "the kissing etc. was consenual, what did she expect to happen next" argument. Most guys that have been with more than a couple girls have probably gotten shot down when trying to progress from making out. Its happened to me more than once. I've always respected her right to stop at anytime, not doing so is rape plain and simple.

Again, I'm not saying Kobe's guilty, just saying that if his accusers story is true, it is rape, and isn't lessened any by the fact that they began by making out consensually.

Originally posted by Josh Hinkle
...
Right now, it doesn't look good for Kobe. The physical evidence (bruises on her neck, face, vaginal tears etc.) seem to match her account of what happened...
Just to keep things accurate, there were no bruises on her neck.

Guess the reporter on one of the local news channels here got their facts mixed up.

Prosecutors, defense give a taste of what trial might be

By TIM DAHLBERG, AP Sports Writer
October 10, 2003

EAGLE, Colo. (AP) -- Prosecutors wasted no time painting a picture of Kobe Bryant as a callous rapist who wouldn't take ``No'' for an answer. Defense attorneys didn't take long, either, to show they would attack the accuser in their attempt to keep the NBA star out of prison.

Bryant sat stone-faced during a preliminary hearing Thursday as the woman's story of a flirtatious encounter gone bad came out for the first time. There were graphic details of Bryant grabbing her by the neck, bending her over a chair and attacking her at the posh mountain resort where she worked.

``You're not going to tell anybody about this, right?'' he allegedly asked the woman repeatedly during five minutes of sex. Before allowing her to leave, she told police, Bryant forced her down and made her kiss his penis.

Bryant's attorney, Pamela Mackey, tried to show the woman's story was just that -- a story. She used the woman's name six different times, and at one point suggested that her injuries might be ``consistent with a person who has had sex with three different men in three days.''

That drew a quick recess from Judge Frederick Gannett, but also gave an early taste of what could likely turn into a messy and nasty trial when it is finally held sometime next year.

``The defense threw some serious mud, and now we will see if it sticks,'' said former prosecutor Craig Silverman, now a Denver defense attorney.

While most of the attention was focused on the woman's version of the encounter she had with Bryant the night of June 30 at the Cordillera Lodge & Spa, Mackey managed to poke some holes in the testimony of Eagle County Sheriff's Detective Doug Winters.

Winters was the only witness during the hearing, which will resume next Wednesday with Bryant present. Sometime after the end of the hearing Gannett will decide whether there is enough probable cause to order Bryant to trial on sexual assault charges -- something legal experts believe is a mere formality.

But it was clear right away that winning a preliminary hearing -- where prosecutors need to show only that there is probable evidence for trial -- and winning the trial itself are two different things. And Mackey not only got Winters to contradict some testimony in a brief cross-examination, but also got an opportunity to see how he will stand up during trial.

Winters seemed sure of himself when questioned by prosecutors, but wasn't so sharp when Mackey had her shot. At one point she asked Winters whether he had seen a bruise on the woman's neck allegedly caused by Bryant when he interviewed her the day after the incident.

``She talks on how Mr. Kobe Bryant grabbed her neck and choked her,'' Mackey told Winters. ``You looked at her neck to see?''

Winters said he had, then Mackey asked him if he saw any injuries on her neck.

``Not from the front, no,'' he said.

``Not a red mark?'' she asked.

``That's correct,'' he said.

``Not a scratch?''

``That's correct.''

Most legal experts had predicted the defense would skip the hearing and go to trial to keep details of the alleged assault from being made public. The details got out, but the defense also gained some valuable knowledge of how the prosecution will try the case.

Winters ``committed himself to a lot of 'I don't knows' and 'I believes,''' Eagle defense attorney Jim Fahrenholtz said. ``There's no way he'll have better knowledge of it at trial.''

Outside of Winters, most of the prosecution's case will center on the testimony of the woman. The only other direct witnesses identified so far are a bellman who told the woman to report the incident and a nurse who treats rape victims.

Still, much of the day's testimony was terribly damaging to the reputation of Bryant, 25, who could face life in prison if he is convicted.

Winters described in graphic detail for a packed courtroom how the 19-year-old woman said an exciting, chance meeting with the Los Angeles Lakers' superstar led to a nightmarish assault that left her shaken and in tears.

She said she told Bryant ``no'' at least twice and he ignored her, pulling her dress up and her underwear down and raping her from behind.

At one point, the woman told police, Bryant forced her to face him and say ``No'' when he asked if she was going to tell anyone.

Bryant has insisted the sex was consensual. He sat at the defense table staring straight at Winters for much of the hearing, hands folded in front of him. Bryant occasionally clenched his jaw, but showed little other reaction.

Winters, the only witness of the afternoon, recounted what the woman told him in an hourlong interview the day after she met Bryant at the resort. It all began with a tour of the hotel that led to some flirting. She went back to Bryant's room and showed him a tattoo on her ankle, then turned down his request to join him in the hot tub, Winters said.

Her shift at the front desk was ending and she wanted to go home, he said, and ``she was starting to feel a bit uncomfortable.''

Winters said she stood up to leave and Bryant gave her a hug that led to some consensual kissing.

But when she turned to go, Bryant grabbed her by the neck, pulled up her black dress and raped her against a chair, Winters said. She told investigators she said ``No'' at least twice before bursting into tears as the five-minute attack went on.

Bryant wasn't holding her neck so tight she couldn't breathe, Winters said, but enough to control her movement.

``She was afraid that he was going to choke her,'' he said.

Afterward, Bryant told the woman to clean up, Winters said. She fixed her hair, wiped her face and left after again promising to remain silent.

She went back to the front desk to finish up her work and finally left the resort with an unidentified bellman, Winters said. She told him what happened and he urged her to report it, later following her home.

Winters testified that the woman's blood was found on the inside of Bryant's T-shirt, based on DNA tests. The woman told him she had bled from the attack, he said.

Bryant has the right to go to trial within six months of his arraignment, but he could agree to push that back until later, perhaps after the NBA season ends early next summer.

--------------------------------

This is going to get ugly. :(

I think this blood spot is gonna screw him over hard, no pun intended.

Yeah, the blood spot could be a killer. That with the vaginal tears, doesn't bode well for the consensual sex defense.

It's by no means a "smoking gun" but it's not good for Kobe never the less.

I might say the blood spot would be the killer piece of evidence, but I thought that about Orenthal, and look how that turned out.

That was kind of a flukey thing. I don't think there's anyway they can use the "planted blood" argument here.

The OJ case was much more racially charged for some reason, and you had the LAPD with a history of corruption to make it somewhat more plausible.

Unless there's somekind of drastic mishandling of evidence by the police that we haven't heard of yet, this simply isn't going to be an option for the defense in this case.

Not sure about you, but there's never been any blood flyin' around when I've had sex with a girl before.

Originally posted by El Scorcho
Not sure about you, but there's never been any blood flyin' around when I've had sex with a girl before.

I'm wondering how this is going to be explained. It really doesn't go with the "shes a slut" image the defense attorney is going for. Wouldn't a woman who had frequent sex with different men be less likely to bleed?

I'm still waiting for the Kobe is hung like a horse defense. :lol:

In my opinion....Kobe's playing days are over after this trial.

The blood might be the clincher...it will be interesting to see how each side plays this. I'm not rooting for Kobe or against him..I'd just like the truth to come out. If she was gold digging...fine...if he raped her...fine...I just want to see the judicial system actually work.

-pedagogue

Originally posted by darkside
I'm wondering how this is going to be explained. It really doesn't go with the "shes a slut" image the defense attorney is going for. Wouldn't a woman who had frequent sex with different men be less likely to bleed?

I'm still waiting for the Kobe is hung like a horse defense. :lol:

:lol:

Sex is a lot like flossing. The more you do it, the less you'll bleed. :lol:

Originally posted by El Scorcho
Not sure about you, but there's never been any blood flyin' around when I've had sex with a girl before.
Nor was there here. My understanding is that there was a little of her blood on the inside of his t-shirt. While that's not good for Kobe, there are so many ways for her to have bled a bit it is not anywhere near conclusive. It does not seem any worse for Kobe than the fact that the woman claimed Kobe grabbed her and held her by the neck yet there were no neck bruises is bad for the prosecution.

As for the tiny bruise on her chin:

http://www.vailtrail.com/newsdetail.cfm?NewsID=1497
A small bruise, half the size of a penny, was discovered by the nurse on the alleged victim’s jaw, but Winters said he never saw that bruise during his taped interview the day after. The nurse’s exam took place later that day at Glenwood’s Valley View Hospital. That hardly seems the thing of which convictions are made.

As for the vagina:
In a cross-examination of lead detective Doug Winters of the Eagle County Sheriff’s Department, Bryant defense attorney Pamela Mackey grilled Winters on a nurse’s examination of Bryant’s alleged victim, noting that it detailed only redness and tiny lacerations on her vagina. Again, it seems to me that something this minor could have numerous causes, probably even consensual sex (although I admit I'm certainly not an expert). We are not talking about a gaping wound here or even a prominent cut.

The former Chief Denver Deputy District Attorney, Craig Silverman commented:
“I don’t think they necessarily have probable cause based on what we’ve heard because it’s all hearsay,” Silverman said, adding the defense clearly wanted to go forward with the preliminary hearing as an opportunity to show the weakness of the prosecution’s case and to smear the alleged victim.

“They threw out some serious mud; let’s see if it will stick,” Silverman said. “I think this is a surprisingly weak case.” (Emphasis added).

There may be more that comes out in the future that is more conclusive one way or the other, but for now I think we absolutely have a credibility battle between Kobe and the woman.

How do you explain the girl's blood on his shirt? If she's a slut and had sex with 3 men on consecutive days, why does that make it more likely that she'd have vaginal tearing? A lot of young people have sex and a lot them have it on more than 3 consecutive days. She'd have to have been having nothing but sex for hours and hours each day and then wouldn't Kobe, if it was consensual, have noticed that she was in pain from some of the tearing that came before him? If my thingy got raw, I know it wouldn't feel too good having sex with it.

Originally posted by dolphinboy
How do you explain the girl's blood on his shirt? If she's a slut and had sex with 3 men on consecutive days, why does that make it more likely that she'd have vaginal tearing? A lot of young people have sex and a lot them have it on more than 3 consecutive days. She'd have to have been having nothing but sex for hours and hours each day and then wouldn't Kobe, if it was consensual, have noticed that she was in pain from some of the tearing that came before him? If my thingy got raw, I know it wouldn't feel too good having sex with it.
Did you see that the vaginal "tears" are extremely minor?

Also, let's not forget that she didn't go to get examined until the next day. I'm not making any accusations but a person can do a lot of things in that amount of time. If she was raped, delaying that exam was not a smart thing to do.

All I'm saying is that those of you who think the physical evidence presented so far is sufficient to convict Kobe are wrong.

Quite frankly, I thought the prosecution would have stronger physical evidence than what they presented, given their confident demeanor up to now about their case.

Prosecutors in Bryant case seek to close at least portion of hearing

By JON SARCHE, Associated Press Writer
October 10, 2003


EAGLE, Colo. (AP) -- In what analysts say is an abrupt shift in strategy, prosecutors in the Kobe Bryant case asked the judge to close at least a portion of the preliminary hearing when it resumes next week.

Prosecutors made the request in private after defense attorneys, during the hearing on Thursday, questioned the sexual history of the woman who accused the NBA star of rape.

Prosecution spokeswoman Krista Flannigan said Friday the request involved a portion of the hearing. She declined to provide additional details.

Tom Kelley, a Denver attorney who represents several media organizations including The Associated Press, said he was told prosecutors sought to close the balance of the hearing.

Earlier, prosecutors had supported a public hearing, and Kelley called the move a ``flip-flop.''

``They got in all the stuff that is harmful to Kobe. When the witness started taking a beating on cross-examination, they move to close,'' Kelley said.

Larry Pozner, former president of the Colorado Criminal Defense Bar, said it appeared to be a defensive action. ``I think yesterday's move was a snap move where they said this is getting even worse than we envisioned,'' he said.

The preliminary hearing, which began Thursday, was expected to be an easy victory for prosecutors. But it ran more than six hours and ended with a suggestion from defense attorney Pamela Mackey that the woman's injuries might be ``consistent with a person who has had sex with three different men in three days.''

Bryant, a guard for the Los Angeles Lakers, showed no emotion as the woman's story emerged: a flirtatious encounter that got out of control.

Eagle County sheriff's Detective Doug Winters related the woman's account with graphic details of Bryant grabbing her by the neck and attacking her.

Pozner said prosecutors made a tactical error by introducing photographs of the woman's injuries and allowing Winters to describe the nurse's conclusions. That gave the defense an opening to bring up the woman's sexual history.

Eagle County Judge Frederick Gannett took the prosecution request to close the hearing under advisement and allowed defense attorneys to question Winters behind closed doors about statements Bryant made to police before he was arrested.

The prosecution was hurt by the defense's actions Thursday, said Robert Pugsley, a professor at Southwestern University School of Law in Los Angeles.

``It's not going to be a piece of cake to get a conviction against Kobe Bryant,'' Pugsley said.

Bryant faces up to life in prison if convicted of the single count of felony sexual assault against him. He has said he and the 19-year-old Eagle woman had consensual sex while he stayed at the mountain resort where she worked.

Bryant, who returned to practice with the Lakers on Friday, is free on $25,000 bond and must return to Eagle on Wednesday when the hearing resumes.

------------------------------------

Talk about an about face. I guess the Defense did it's job enough to get what they wanted in the first place.. a closed hearing.

He has some brilliant lawyers. Guilty or innocent they look like the type that will get him out of this. They will tear those cops and that girl apart on the stand.

Blood or not its a "he said she said". He has a spotless record and she doesn't. I have a feeling what that defense attorney is going to do to her character will the biggest rape in this case.

I'm just shocked at how badly prepared the prosecution is. That cop should not have been taken apart so easily. Didn't these District Attorneys learn anything from the OJ case?

http://www.nydailynews.com/front/story/125779p-112756c.html
*******************************************
Team Kobe's bomb: Proof of other man


By GREG GITTRICH in Eagle, Colo.
and CORKY SIEMASZKO in New York
DAILY NEWS STAFF WRITERS


L.A. Laker Kobe Bryant poses for team promotional ad yesterday, a day after graphic testimony in his rape case.

Kobe Bryant's defense team believes it has proof that the woman who accused him of rape had sex with at least one other man shortly before the alleged attack, the Daily News learned yesterday.
The revelation came a day after Bryant's lead defense lawyer, Pamela Mackey, caused an uproar at a court hearing by asking whether the woman's vaginal tearing was the result of "sex with three different men in three days."

Retired Eagle County District Court Judge William Jones said Mackey asked the question because she has physical evidence suggesting the tearing could have happened during an earlier sexual encounter.

"There was more than one man's semen found in her panties," Jones said. "That's what's behind all of this."

Jones said he learned of this from Mackey's co-counsel, Hal Haddon.

"I have known him for 40 years," Jones said. "He was doing some work for me and he mentioned it to me. It will come out in due course."

He does not account for Mackey's suggestion that the woman had sex with a third man.

Citing the gag order that Judge Frederick Gannett imposed on the case, a spokeswoman for District Attorney Mark Hurlbert declined to comment. Bryant's defenders also declined to discuss the case.

Veteran Denver criminal defense attorney Jeralyn Merritt said she's convinced Mackey has something up her sleeve.

"By her asking that question, it's clear they have evidence about the accuser," she said. "Pamela Mackey would not have brought this up out of thin air."

Mackey, a lawyer known as a pit bull in pearls, dropped her bomb after Eagle County Sheriff's Detective Doug Winters recounted in graphic detail the alleged victim's version of what happened on June 30 at the posh hotel near Vail, Colo.

The 19-year-old woman told cops she and Bryant kissed. But when she tried to leave, Bryant bent her over a chair and raped her, Winters said.

The accuser's blood was found on Bryant's clothes, Winters said.

But Mackey's surprise question brought the proceeding to an abrupt halt. The hearing resumes on Wednesday.

Crossed a legal line?

Former Denver District Attorney Norm Early said Mackey "blatantly smeared" Bryant's accuser and possibly violated Colorado's Rape Shield law, which bars lawyers from delving into the sex lives of assault victims.

"I don't care what evidence they could have, three nights of consensual sex with three different partners would not lead to a vaginal tear," Early said.

Karen Steinhauser, another former Denver prosecutor and an expert on sex assault cases, disagreed. She said vaginal tearing also occurs during consensual sex and that Mackey's question was "proper."

"There is an exception under the Rape Shield that allows her to ask about the injuries if there is evidence they could have been caused before," she said.

Mackey is no stranger to high-profile cases. Among others, Mackey got a domestic violence charge against Colorado Avalanche goalie Patrick Roy dropped. She also avoided jail time for Jeane Newmaker, who smothered her 10-year-old adopted daughter in a highly publicized "rebirthing" case three years ago.

Haddon represented JonBenet Ramsey's parents and got sex assault charges against gonzo journalist Hunter Thompson dropped for lack of evidence.

*****************************************

And with that, Kobe goes free, despite the fact that he rapes chicks -wink-

So what are they saying here? She had sex with somebody on the third floor a couple hours before Kobe? SHe doesn't change her underwear often? Help me out here.

jr

The defense is going to have to come up with something better than that IMO.

Again, I don't think the simple "she's a slut" argument is going to do much good. No matter how promiscuous someone is, they still have the same right as anyone else to say no.

And as they guy in the article says above, it's unlikely that 3 nights of consensual sex would lead to tears and blood on Kobe's shirt. That kind of stuff is more likely to happen in an unwanted encounter when the girl is not aroused. They'll have a hard time getting any Dr's to back that up strongly enough that the prosecution can't refute it.

Originally posted by Josh Hinkle
The defense is going to have to come up with something better than that IMO.
...
And as they guy in the article says above, it's unlikely that 3 nights of consensual sex would lead to tears and blood on Kobe's shirt. That kind of stuff is more likely to happen in an unwanted encounter when the girl is not aroused. They'll have a hard time getting any Dr's to back that up strongly enough that the prosecution can't refute it.
From that same article:
Karen Steinhauser, another former Denver prosecutor and an expert on sex assault cases, disagreed. She said vaginal tearing also occurs during consensual sex and that Mackey's question was "proper."
What people don't seem to be getting is that the physical evidence reported so far is, in its best case scenario for the prosecution, ambiguous.

The prosecution is the side that must prove its case beyond a reasonable doubt, not the defense. If they don't have anything better than what they presented on Thursday...

... then Kobe gets away with rape! -wink-

Originally posted by El Scorcho
... then Kobe gets away with rape! -wink-

Not if they get an all white jury-which has a pretty good chance of happening in that county.

jr

originally posted by movielib
The prosecution is the side that must prove its case beyond a reasonable doubt, not the defense. If they don't have anything better than what they presented on Thursday...

Originally posted by El Scorcho
... then Kobe gets away with rape! -wink-
Hey, keep your Blazing paws off my ellipsis. :)

Originally posted by John Richmond
Not if they get an all white jury-which has a pretty good chance of happening in that county.

jr

Race won't be an issue with the jury. He is a celebrity and this case has national coverage. The white jury does not want anyone thinking they convicted him because he was black. The prosecution will really have to pull out something or they will lose this case. Honestly I think its already lost as easily tripped up as they were this early in.

They will come up with something for the blood and him confusing his story and spend the rest of the time ripping her and the cops to shreds.