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View Full Version : Who do you think will win the 2nd American Idol this year?


Rypro 525
05-21-03, 01:53 PM
I for one hope Ruben wins but more cheers from the audience were for Clay.

Patman
05-21-03, 01:59 PM
I'm in Clay's corner for this vote.

rkndkn
05-21-03, 02:03 PM
I really like both of them a lot. They have their strengths in totally different types of genres. It was REALLY difficult to vote against one last night, but I voted multiple times for Clay.

movieking
05-21-03, 02:11 PM
I think that Clay will win, but I think that Ruben should win.

Kal-El
05-21-03, 02:12 PM
Clay.

Goldberg74
05-21-03, 02:25 PM
Clay... hands down...

MrX
05-21-03, 02:31 PM
Clay

briank
05-21-03, 02:33 PM
Clay.

ChefWinduAZ
05-21-03, 02:53 PM
I think Clay will win but I think that Reuben should win. I think in the long run Reuben will have the more succesful career. Numerous times this morning when the morning shows were talking about American Idol, many people kept saying that clay belongs on Broadway in RENT. I have toa gree with that and it isn't meant as an insult. It is just that some people can sing but just not mainstream. Clay may be able to sing but as a record company exec. who do you market Clay to?

rfduncan
05-21-03, 02:55 PM
I think Clay ROCKED his last song - but I think Reuben is going to win.

I can't BELIEVE there's a 2 hour show to sit through before we find out! -eek-

Josh-da-man
05-21-03, 03:00 PM
Clay seems to have the most momentum.

I haven't voted once because I don't really care, but I've spoken with a couple of people who said they couldn't vote. Every time they called the number they got a busy signal. They both wanted to vote for Clay, btw.

TheAllPurposeNothing
05-21-03, 03:02 PM
Originally posted by movieking
I think that Clay will win, but I think that Ruben should win.

I believe just the opposite. Ruben will win, but Clay should win.

Right out the box, Ruben is the best performer. But he doesn't have the vocal stamina. He's gonna be a bust as a concert performer, and he's going to be terribly difficult to work with in the studio. After 2 or three takes, his voice is going to start to strain and they'll have to call it a day.

While Clay is more Broadway-ish, it doesn't mean he can't have a successful recording career. He could do well with the easy listening crowd, doing anything from sappy ballads to big band vocal material, like Harry Connick. He tends to get better as he performs, too, which will make him easier tyo work with studiowise, and he should be able to do great on the concert circuit.

But Ruben will win. This thing will be decided by the cell phone, text message crowd, and in that respect, Ruben will have the biggest draw. Clay's following is almost entirely phoned in.

MrHappyToes
05-21-03, 03:05 PM
I think I'm going to pull for Clay to win this thing simply because Simon, Randy, Ryan, and everyone else connected with this show, have been on every talk show they could book themselves on in the last 2 weeks pimping Ruben as the best and the one who should win.

I think it was very unprofessional and more than a little unfair to Clay and Kim. It's bad enough that we have to watch all 3 judges constantly pushing Ruben down our throats on AI every week, but when they go campaigning for him all over the place, it just rubs me the wrong way.

Of course, none of this is Ruben's fault.

I just hope America teaches the judges and producers a lesson by not picking the one they've been forcing on us, and maybe they won't do the same idiotic thing next year.

But I don't plan on buying either of their records, so I won't lose any sleep if Ruben wins.

briank
05-21-03, 03:12 PM
I think Clay will win and SHOULD WIN.

I think Ruben might be more for the "American Idol" market and more "marketable" at first, but he has too many flaws.
TheAllPurposeNothing points out some good ones about recording and live performances.

Ruben has a good look, and had a short fun gimmick with the 2-0-5 and I really liked him in the beginning.
But he CAN NOT give a decent interview to save his life. He is a bore!
He can ONLY sing slow songs and one at a time. I like the Pavorotti reference in the other thread, he'll be too tired to sing 3 songs in a row.

Ruben does have a look, but that benefits you for live performances and interviews and personal appearances, and that's where his flaws kill him.

Clay gives a great interview and his personality shines through there and that gets a lot of people to like him.

When you strip everything down to voices and for the radio I think they are both on the same wave length. Slow easy listening songs.
With both those, neither is very "marketable" to the crowd that they were hoping to attract with "American Idol".

Yeah Clay would fit into a role like Mark in RENT (not sure he could pull it off, he needs a lot of work and needs to cut out the "twitching" and performer in him to do that).
But in the end I don't think Ruben really fits anywhere without really addressing his flaws that have been pointed out.

ChrisHicks
05-21-03, 03:20 PM
Originally posted by MrHappyToes
I think I'm going to pull for Clay to win this thing simply because Simon, Randy, Ryan, and everyone else connected with this show, have been on every talk show they could book themselves on in the last 2 weeks pimping Ruben as the best and the one who should win.

I think it was very unprofessional and more than a little unfair to Clay and Kim. It's bad enough that we have to watch all 3 judges constantly pushing Ruben down our throats on AI every week, but when they go campaigning for him all over the place, it just rubs me the wrong way.

Of course, none of this is Ruben's fault.

I just hope America teaches the judges and producers a lesson by not picking the one they've been forcing on us, and maybe they won't do the same idiotic thing next year.

But I don't plan on buying either of their records, so I won't lose any sleep if Ruben wins.

I agree. It stinks that they all worship Ruben and constantly tell America to vote for him. I guess we can't decide on our own who we prefer, huh?

Patman
05-21-03, 03:21 PM
Clay's good at creating these memorable stances when he finished up strong on a song. Ruben is less of a performer in this respect. If you cut together performance clips, Clay has so many strong ones that sort of define what it is to perform on stage in this competition. Sure, he's got no dance game, but as a singer, he's got plenty of game.

BTW, how will Fox pad 2 hours of AI tonight? This will be drawn out to the bitter end.

GuessWho
05-21-03, 03:24 PM
Originally posted by Rypro 525
I for one hope Ruben wins but more cheers from the audience were for Clay. The cheers were equal, however Clay's sounded like more cuz it was all high-pitches screaming. Most of Rube's fans were bellowing a low-tone "Ruuuuuuuuu" that sounded a lot like boos (but they weren't).

That said; Ruben should. Clay will.

ChefWinduAZ
05-21-03, 03:32 PM
In my opinion the final two are the best example of what America represents. DIVERSITY! On one hand you have an overweight Black man and on the other a homosexual. Whoever wins, it will be a positive thing. They have both proved that anybody can become an American Idol.

But, let me state one thing, if Frenchie had still be on the show she would have kicked both their asses. ;)

Spooky
05-21-03, 03:45 PM
Originally posted by WWE Jedi
In my opinion the final two are the best example of what America represents. DIVERSITY! On one hand you have an overweight Black man and on the other a homosexual. Whoever wins, it will be a positive thing. They have both proved that anybody can become an American Idol.

But, let me state one thing, if Frenchie had still be on the show she would have kicked both their asses. ;)

Isn't it amazing how everyone assumes Clay is gay? Talk about stereotyping!

Anyway, Clay should win. He blew Ruben away last night on a performance level (although I agree with Simon that both contestants were 'playing it safe') and while I like both guys, Clay clearly has the better vocal chords.

However, I didn't get my chance to vote...I tried calling into Clay's number for a good hour before finally giving up. I've voted in previous weeks and always gotten through after a few tries, but no dice last night.

icondude
05-21-03, 03:52 PM
Wasn't anyone else appalled by Ruben's attire duing his first song last night? I'm referring to the black leather jacket with "squared" pattern on it.

Big Quasimodo
05-21-03, 04:16 PM
Originally posted by movieking
I think that Clay will win, but I think that Ruben should win.

Opposite for me...

Jackskeleton
05-21-03, 04:26 PM
I'm just glad that the final two are a nerd and a heavy fella and not another spears wannabe.

ChefWinduAZ
05-21-03, 04:36 PM
Originally posted by Spooky
Isn't it amazing how everyone assumes Clay is gay? Talk about stereotyping!


Just like everyone assumed last season Jim Vavaros was gay....oops guess he was. According to an interview with Jim in Entertainment Weekly, he along with most of the males in last seasons final 10 had to hide the fact they were gay per orders of the procducers. Shouldn't be too shocking considering the producers are always trying to hide thing about the contestants until a reporter digs up the truth. Nikki with a child, Trenyce and the shoplifting, and then there was making Kelly Clarkson take out her nose ring and hide her tattoo because it wasn't what they thought the image of an American Idol should be.

TheAllPurposeNothing
05-21-03, 04:36 PM
Just wish once I had seen someone holding up this sign in the audience over the past week's contest:

ACTUALLY, I WASN'T SAYING "RUBEN!"

I REALLY WAS BOOING!!

Not that I really dislike Ruben. More times than not, he is responsible for the best performance of the night.

Just tired of hearing Ryan constantly correct that misconception.

BTW, they weren't really booing Michael Moore at the Oscars. They were just shouting "Ruben!" :)

Charlie Goose
05-21-03, 04:50 PM
Clay should & will win. Ruben is an excellent singer, but too one-dimensional. Every song he did, from "Imagine" to "Sweet Home Alabama" sounds like the same R&B. Also, as AllPurpose stated, Ruben isn't physically capable of performing an entire concert. After three songs last night, with long breaks, he looked like he was about to stroke out.
I like Clay's singing better, but goddammit every time he flutters those eyelashes, I want to staple them open.

http://charliegoose.homestead.com/files/goose.jpg Honk!

GuessWho
05-21-03, 04:53 PM
Clay would be a perfect singer on Broadway. Maybe the best ever.

But he's all wrong for 2003 pop music. Rick Astley is soo 1988.

Rocky_Stallone
05-21-03, 06:37 PM
I want Ruben to win tonight, that man has so much potential and he deserves a record contract!!!!

If that man gets famous, all the chicks will dig him!!!! I'm serious!!!! :)

Michael T Hudson
05-21-03, 07:07 PM
I would like to see Clay win. My wife hates him but I think his voice is amazing. I think both will get record deals so not a big loss for either IMHO.

mcbg1
05-21-03, 07:07 PM
Originally posted by WWE Jedi
Just like everyone assumed last season Jim Vavaros was gay....oops guess he was. According to an interview with Jim in Entertainment Weekly, he along with most of the males in last seasons final 10 had to hide the fact they were gay per orders of the procducers. Shouldn't be too shocking considering the producers are always trying to hide thing about the contestants until a reporter digs up the truth. Nikki with a child, Trenyce and the shoplifting, and then there was making Kelly Clarkson take out her nose ring and hide her tattoo because it wasn't what they thought the image of an American Idol should be.

The producers didn't ask Kelly to take out her nose ring and hide her tatoo. Her nose piercing was closed for like one year prior to AI and she didn't have enough money to get it re-pierced. As far as her tatoo goes, it's a small chinese writing on the back of her neck. It wasn't noticable since she had long hairs at the time. Just to let you know..

mcbg1
05-21-03, 07:09 PM
I'm rooting for Clay to win, it's so unfair that the medias and the judges are overpraising Ruben. Anyway I don't think Ruben can go through the hectic schedule that is ahead of him if he wins.

IMO Clay has a more diverse singing style and he should win.

ChefWinduAZ
05-21-03, 07:14 PM
Originally posted by mcbg1
I'm rooting for Clay to win, it's so unfair that the medias and the judges are overpraising Ruben. Anyway I don't think Ruben can go through the hectic schedule that is ahead of him if he wins.


Why do you think the judges/media are being unfair? And why do you think Reuben wouldn't be able to handle the hectic schedule? And if it is because of his weight then there are a lot of succesful singers out there who have been doing it for years.

mcbg1
05-21-03, 07:19 PM
I mean everytime the judges are on tvshows, they just keep praising Ruben and they never even mention Clay.

When I watch Ruben sing on AI after only 2-3 songs he looks extremely exhausted and when he's interviewed he has no intonation in his voice and it takes forever for him to mention something. Anyway this is just my opinion, I do think he's got a great voice but he shouldn't win AI, Clay should.

mediabear
05-21-03, 07:39 PM
I just watched Entertainment Tonight and.....

OMG!!!!!!!!! Kelly is back tonight!!!!!!!!! :)

...and some of you guys will be happy to know that Carmen also will return.

ChefWinduAZ
05-21-03, 07:42 PM
I thought I heard something somewhere that Kelly is supposed to sing a duet with whoever wins tonight. But I could be wrong.

uncle markie
05-21-03, 07:49 PM
Ruben should win, his final perfromance last night was the best I have seen yet this year, but Clay will by at least 5% of the vote.

Either way, I'm fine with whoever wins. I love the show, well...I guess addicted, but I'll never buy one of their albums.

Michael T Hudson
05-21-03, 07:57 PM
http://www.heraldtribune.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20030521/APN/305211095&cachetime=5


Story about the spike in phone volumes last night.

ChefWinduAZ
05-21-03, 08:11 PM
AOL is 55% for Reuben and 45% for Clay. That's with 1,614,338 people voting.

shanester
05-21-03, 08:22 PM
Rueben appears to be getting biggger (in size) every week what's up with that??

Michael T Hudson
05-21-03, 08:22 PM
I just hope we don't have co-champions.

palebluedot
05-21-03, 08:32 PM
Damn...Kelly sounds like CRAP!

MrX
05-21-03, 08:33 PM
That song was horrible

mcbg1
05-21-03, 08:35 PM
OMG I thought Kelly sounded great IMO, anyway I guess some of you will never like her anyway lol !

palebluedot
05-21-03, 08:37 PM
Originally posted by mcbg1
OMG I thought Kelly sounded great IMO, anyway I guess some of you will never like her anyway lol !

Dude...give it a rest...she did not sound good. Are you hard of hearing. I mean I am the first to defend my favorite artist but when it's bad...it's bad.

xnlt
05-21-03, 08:38 PM
That was painful!

matta
05-21-03, 08:40 PM
man, kelly sounds awful right now. Too bad, the song isn't half bad.

palebluedot
05-21-03, 08:41 PM
Oh man...get her off the stage...YIKES!

Patman
05-21-03, 08:41 PM
That margin is victory is just so damn close. Any hanging chad problems in the vote last night?

MrX
05-21-03, 08:42 PM
Originally posted by palebluedot
Oh man...get her off the stage...YIKES!

I agree. She sounds like she's about to lose her voice.

mcbg1
05-21-03, 08:50 PM
One Voice : Kelly sounded great

Miss Independent : Not so good, her voice wasn't there

Now stop dissing her please

Michael T Hudson
05-21-03, 08:51 PM
Originally posted by palebluedot
Dude...give it a rest...she did not sound good. Are you hard of hearing. I mean I am the first to defend my favorite artist but when it's bad...it's bad.


I agree I told my wife she sounds bad but I would rather have that than the normal pop lip snyc.

zuffy
05-21-03, 08:59 PM
Damn, I missed Julia and Carmen. They are hotties :hump:

matta
05-21-03, 09:04 PM
I think Rubin will win based on people's response in the audience. But I haven't watched the show at all, so I don't really know that much.

mcbg1
05-21-03, 09:06 PM
It's great to see Vanessa once again, I guess she's not in trouble with the producers anymore hehe.

She's got a great voice

Patman
05-21-03, 09:24 PM
Man, Ruben looks like he's literally in a prize fight by all that sweat that's running down his head.

tommyp007
05-21-03, 09:27 PM
Definately Clay Aiken. I also am tired of the blatant pushing of Ruben on us by the show, as if he won the damn thing 6 weeks ago. Tho I've always been a Clay supporter as another Tarheel, I'm even more turned off on Ruuuben now. Gotta say, Clay's a hell of a singer! 2 Hours busy on phone to vote last night, never got thru

tommyp007
05-21-03, 09:35 PM
Originally posted by zuffy
Damn, I missed Julia and Carmen. They are hotties :hump:

sigh.....me too. Carmen looks hotter and hotter all the time. Kim still has that magnificent midriff. And...I couldn't help but notice Julia's cleavage...:thumbsup:

zuffy
05-21-03, 09:48 PM
WHAT?!

Michael T Hudson
05-21-03, 09:49 PM
The Big Man wins it all and they both get record deals.

zuffy
05-21-03, 09:49 PM
I can't believe Ruben won.

tommyp007
05-21-03, 09:51 PM
Prediction: Ruben's album sells 3 copies. One each to Randy, Paula and Simon

briank
05-21-03, 09:52 PM
Well that shows how bad the voting system is flawed!!!

You can't have 20+ million votes and only have a 1,335 vote difference. It shows how bad the phone system is flawed and how both were just "busy" and cancelled each other out.

I'm a bit bitter, but don't care much either way.

What will be funny is if/when Clay's album outsells Rubens in the first week even with the "American Idol champ" push.

ChefWinduAZ
05-21-03, 09:52 PM
Why are you guys so bitter? Reuben was going to do well whether or not he won.

zuffy
05-21-03, 09:53 PM
Seeing how Justin is getting his share of promos, I doubt Clay really lost though.

Timber
05-21-03, 09:56 PM
Julia's chest was the highlight of the show...along with Kim C.'s stomach.

mcbg1
05-21-03, 09:57 PM
Both their albums will come out before December 2003 and AI3 will start in January so I'm wondering how they will be promoted.

Kelly had AI2 as a platform to market her album to a lot of viewers but those 2 won't until their albums have been already released. We'll see who's the true winner then since the race was so close.

RichC2
05-21-03, 09:57 PM
Welp.. not a fan of either but I'm really glad the big man won..

I honestly can't stand Clay.

zuffy
05-21-03, 09:58 PM
Originally posted by Timber
Julia chest

:hump:

Playboy need to contact her

Big Quasimodo
05-21-03, 10:01 PM
I wanted Clay, because he is both the better singer and the better entertainer (unlike Kelly, who was only the better singer) HOWEVER, when the margin is 1300 votes out of 24 million, the winner is statistically insignificant. As far as I am concerned, they both won.

Also, I think Ruben will sell more than Clay - and I predicted he would win.

Congrats to Ruben and Clay.

And screw AI if they manipulated the vote.

db27
05-21-03, 10:01 PM
I can't stand Clay and am damn happy Ruben won. He is just such a nice guy with a great voice, and I wish him the best of success.

Clay has a great voice and immense talent, but I just simply think that Ruben will have better marketability in the pop world we live in today

I anticipate both guys have successful careers, whereas Justin from the last idol will disappear within a year or so.

mediabear
05-21-03, 10:02 PM
LOL! I am in Florida, a state that they say went to Ruben. I voted for Clay and the local news is now talking to some folks in a bar that all voted for Clay!

Clay is still number one on Amazon's charts. Ruben is up to number four.

Patman
05-21-03, 10:04 PM
For that small sliver of victory, it'd be hard pressed to really be upset about the results just because of the limitation of the voting setup, but each knew how it was going to be, and whatever votes showed up is what they were awarded. I still can't believe the tiny margin of victory.

The "non-winner" was very classy (just like Justin last year). Good luck to both.

Patman
05-21-03, 10:05 PM
Oh yeah, Julia and Kim C were missed, but mainly for their physical attributes.

thecrazydude
05-21-03, 10:06 PM
Ruben is the most talented, but Clay, on the strength of the teen bopper vote, will probley win.

Michael T Hudson
05-21-03, 10:07 PM
I call for a recount in your state.

Patman
05-21-03, 10:08 PM
The DVDTalk poll has been a big unpredictor of how the vote went down.

I also thought the small margin made for a statistical tie. They (the producers) should slide some moola over Clay's way for giving them the finish they wanted.

MrHappyToes
05-21-03, 10:08 PM
Well, the good thing about Ruben winning: now we don't have to suffer through dozens of articles about discrimination and racism in America like we would have had to if Clay had won.

And the votes meant nothing. They need to fix the system before next year or why bother voting.

dolphinboy
05-21-03, 10:14 PM
Is it true that Clay had more electoral votes?

Patman
05-21-03, 10:14 PM
Hanging chads, I tell you! Clay needs to send a ton of lawyers to Florida and have very single call verified! Nobody wants to see a long list of dead people calling!

movieking
05-21-03, 10:15 PM
With a margin that close, I think that they should have been co-champs. The margin of error of 25 million votes has to be more than the 1000+ votes that was the difference.

Kelly sounded horrible in her second song. She made Axl Rose's performance at the MTV Awards sound like Pavaroti. I really like Kelly, and her voice is amazing, but it just wasn't there tonight.

I am glad that Ruben won, but I really think that both of them will do fine.

Thank God they kept Justin Guarini off the stage tonight.

Julia's cleavage :drool:
Carmen at the end in her little dress :hump:

Da Thrilla
05-21-03, 10:17 PM
Ruben won, get over it. :rolleyes:

Patman
05-21-03, 10:19 PM
Awww....we're just having some fun, reliving 2000 all over again as well.

Michael T Hudson
05-21-03, 10:31 PM
Originally posted by dolphinboy
Is it true that Clay had more electoral votes?


rotfl

atlantamoi
05-21-03, 10:34 PM
I honestly thought Clay would win because of last night's performance, but I'm pleased Ruben won. Good for him.

movieking
05-21-03, 10:37 PM
Originally posted by atlantamoi
I honestly thought Clay would win because of last night's performance, but I'm pleased Ruben won. Good for him.

I concur completely.

MrHappyToes
05-21-03, 10:48 PM
I'm a big Kelly fan but she was way off on Miss Independent tonight. But I thought she sounded very good on that first song, whatever it was called.

the aftermath
05-21-03, 10:54 PM
Originally posted by MrHappyToes
Well, the good thing about Ruben winning: now we don't have to suffer through dozens of articles about discrimination and racism in America like we would have had to if Clay had won.
You're being sarcastic, please tell me you are.

Anyway, I think Clay was DEFINITELY going to win. My mom was rooting for Clay, I didn't care either way. To me, neither of them are AI material.

Also, the margin wasnt 1,300 or whatever they said, it was more like 130,000.

Patman
05-21-03, 11:04 PM
Well, Seacrest corrected himself when he was about to announce the winner, and that's where the 1,300 vote differential comes from. So if he or the producer got it wrong in the early part or the later part, who know what the real vote differential was.

But just think about it, out of 24 million votes, the percentage was either just 0.054% or 0.0054% away from a 50-50 tie.

TheAllPurposeNothing
05-21-03, 11:11 PM
This just in:

Clay demands recount...says results "premature."

According to a spokesman for Clay Aiken, there is some discrepancy in the tally since American Idol's producers didn't wait for the overseas votes to come in.

"Since our men and women in the military typically vote for guys with single syllable names, Clay has a good chance of still being the next American Idol."

Seriously, though. This all went down as I expected. It would come down to the text message votes and they would be in Ruben's favor.

Not that it makes any difference. Its sort of like a Miss America pageant. Only this time, while the winner gets to wear the tiara and the banner, and walk down the stage, both her and the first runner-up have to fulfill the duties that come with the crown.

This also just in: Ruben Studdard's "Fly without Wings" has been selected as the closing track to Joe Dante's upcoming Looney Tunes flick. :)

mcbg1
05-21-03, 11:16 PM
I just re-watched Kelly's ' Miss Independent ' performance and it was definitely not her best. It wasn't her night I guess.

She gave me chills on One Heart though, she sounded so great.

Groucho
05-21-03, 11:17 PM
There isn't a "margin of error" in this competition, as it isn't a sample poll...it's straight voting.

In preparation for tonight's event, I burnt a ton of copies of Kelly's album for my friends and co-workers. They all hated it. Hopefully they'll enjoy Ruben's album more...I plan to BUY them all copies of that bad boy.

Patman
05-21-03, 11:20 PM
But the voting system can't handle influx of votes. Each individual vote gets in on sheer luck it seems.

mcbg1
05-21-03, 11:20 PM
hey wait up Groucho lol

I guess you're trying to piss me off again :)

ChefWinduAZ
05-21-03, 11:25 PM
Originally posted by MrHappyToes
Well, the good thing about Ruben winning: now we don't have to suffer through dozens of articles about discrimination and racism in America like we would have had to if Clay had won.

And the votes meant nothing. They need to fix the system before next year or why bother voting.


Oooh sounds like someone is very bitter. I guess when things don't work out your way your true feelings show.

dolphinboy
05-21-03, 11:27 PM
Originally posted by Groucho
There isn't a "margin of error" in this competition, as it isn't a sample poll...it's straight voting.


So, you're telling me that no gay people were allowed to vote? I just don't see how you could know that for sure.

mcbg1
05-21-03, 11:38 PM
Did anyone notice at the end when Paula went on the stage and fell down ? People were trying to get her up, I don't know if she simply lost balance, was totally drunk or if she fainted...

ChefWinduAZ
05-21-03, 11:40 PM
I noticed this earlier in the season but it really stuck out tonight, Clay has no rhythm. The boy has pipes but he has no rhythm.

Flay
05-21-03, 11:53 PM
Originally posted by mcbg1
Did anyone notice at the end when Paula went on the stage and fell down ? People were trying to get her up, I don't know if she simply lost balance, was totally drunk or if she fainted...

I would have to say drunk. She just rambled on and on about nothing during the "advice" portion at the end.

Goldberg74
05-22-03, 12:07 AM
That "nightmare" Simon had was the highlight of the show...

Congrats to Ruben, but I think that Clay should have won.

I think that AI3 should switch to an Electoral College System. Have the FOX affiliates choose "fans" from each state as in the American system, then let them vote on the final two. They can eaither go with their own vote or the area they represent.

Yeah, that would work...

;)

dolphinboy
05-22-03, 12:09 AM
Originally posted by Flay
I would have to say drunk. She just rambled on and on about nothing during the "advice" portion at the end.

That really doesn't distinguish this night from what she does every other time she is allowed to speak. Maybe she's always drunk.

Charlie Goose
05-22-03, 12:47 AM
Where was Josh during the finalists' medley?

ChefWinduAZ
05-22-03, 12:54 AM
I don't think Josh can take anymore "leave" from his duties. THe military got a lot of bad press for letting him do this show in the first place. I doubt he will even be doing the AI tour.

atari2600
05-22-03, 12:55 AM
well i never watched any of AI2 except tonight and ruben seems really really cool. im glad he won. so much better than ANNOYING kelly and justin from last year. ruben just seems cool.

plus they said clay will get a deal too so thats good.

atari2600
05-22-03, 12:56 AM
does anyone know if people can vote more than once?

El Scorcho
05-22-03, 12:57 AM
Ok, I'm claiming rights to the name "Notorious B.I.G.G.E.R." right now.

Patman
05-22-03, 12:58 AM
Josh is back with the Marines. He definitely didn't have the clearance to be away for all the rehearsal time needed for the performance numbers on the show.

I must say, I'm tempted to actually get tickets for the AI Tour when they come to Atlanta because them girls wear some sexy outfits.

Looking back, I think Vanessa got robbed of some face time in the competition because that girl can sing.

The contrast between Ruben and Clay when they showed the respective local town support was amazing. Ruben was just dumbfounded and seemed sort of lost, his facial expressions was kind of bland. Clay had this look of amazement of the turn out at RBC Arena, but the show of emotion of his face throughout the bit was heartfelt.

Patman
05-22-03, 12:59 AM
I think Ruben sweated off about 10 pounds during the night of performances. He was getting slimmer as the night wore on.

atari2600
05-22-03, 01:00 AM
news just said 134,000 difference out of 24 million votes.

btw; who was the HOT chick with the dark hair? omg...very nice.

Patman
05-22-03, 01:04 AM
The one with the huge tracts of land? That was Julia.

El Scorcho
05-22-03, 01:05 AM
Fist it, I would.

blakader
05-22-03, 01:25 AM
Sigh.. I really really wanted Clay to win. One thing I thought that Clay could pull off any song Ruben sang during the competition...
But I seriously doubt that Ruben could do the same.

I was astounded by the turnout for Clay from his hometown... that was amazing.
I'm really glad that they both are getting record deals...I will certainly be buying that one, and the single too.
I look forword to seeing how well they both do when they come out.

My wife noticed Clay was, yelling "RU-BEN" what a good sport

Congrats to Ruben for winning

evenflow
05-22-03, 01:42 AM
Julia :hump:

mee2
05-22-03, 01:46 AM
Glad Ruben won, Clay just has this look about him that makes me want to slap my TV every time he appears on it....And his hair! Don't even get me started on his hair!!

ChefWinduAZ
05-22-03, 02:00 AM
You could see it in Clay's face that he knew that Reuben was going to win. I am glad to see that they had become close friends and that Clay was happy for Reuben. Clay showed real class. Too bad the same can not be said for some of Clay's fans.

big whoppa
05-22-03, 03:50 AM
I voted for Ruben to win. Actually, I couldn't vote but I tried. The darn phone line was busy. Cheap AI couldn't leave the lines up longer.

We all now know Ruben won. But neither Clay or Ruben were ever going to be losers since they both will be having albums out soon.

I knew when they announced Clive Davis that he would be presenting Kelly a platinum album for sales of her album. "Miss Independent" is a pretty good song but I can't say I was knocked out with this performance or the one before.

Last night, the show seemed more like a 2 hour long plug of albums. Bringing back the old contestants (losers, whatever) and doing songs from the albums. Less focus on Clay and Ruben and who was going to win unlike last year. It would have been interesting seeing how differently they would perform the same songs like they did in the first AI.

Was that skit with Paula and Simon hot or what? Either they are really good actors or they really have something going on. I doubt they can really act. We know they are in relationships with other people but who knows they could end up dumping them soon and hooking up later.

Oh, where was Josh? I guess he must have gone back to the Marines.

big whoppa
05-22-03, 03:51 AM
Originally posted by mee2
Glad Ruben won, Clay just has this look about him that makes me want to slap my TV every time he appears on it....And his hair! Don't even get me started on his hair!!

Yeah, it works better for Ryan than Clay. Clay's face is too wide. Looks too much like Alfalfa.

Blake
05-22-03, 04:22 AM
Originally posted by atari2600
news just said 134,000 difference out of 24 million votes.

btw; who was the HOT chick with the dark hair? omg...very nice. On the show, they said it was less than 1,300 votes separating the two. But the 24 million votes is from the WHOLE SEASON of AI2 - not just one day...a bit confusing. They tried to make it sound like TONS of people voted and the vote was EXTREMELY close. It was close, but 24 million people didn't vote last night alone.

Can't believe I'm talking AI2 :) Watched the last half hour because absolutely nothing else was on. AI is only good for the first half of the series when they actually have something to televise other than 50 minutes of commercials every hour.

TheBang
05-22-03, 06:35 AM
No, 24 million were cast last night. 250 million votes over the past four months. And the final spread was 130,000 votes. CNN article here:

http://www.cnn.com/2003/SHOWBIZ/TV/05/21/idol.winner.reut/index.html

Relevant passages:

The two faced off in a finale of three songs each Tuesday night that sent 24 million Americans to their phones to vote for the winner.

... Organizers of Wednesday's two-hour Fox TV show at the Universal Amphitheater in Los Angeles said only 130,000 votes finally separated Studdard and Aiken, who charmed audiences with their diverse personalities and vocal styles.

... Organizers said a total of some 250 million votes were received over the past four months, more than double those phoned in last year.

criptik28
05-22-03, 06:41 AM
Yeah...remember, people can vote as many times as they want, within the 2-hour time span. So it's not actually 24 million people...maybe more like 5-10 million actually voting?

criptik28
05-22-03, 06:42 AM
BTW, 130,000 / 24,000,000 x 100% = 0.54%. That's still an incredibly small margin. :eek:

shanester
05-22-03, 07:11 AM
his voting systems reminds me of the 2000 election (hangin chads,pregnant chants,etc..)

Does this mean Clay will aks for a recount??..:)

Patman
05-22-03, 08:15 AM
Too bad the monetary prize is an all-or-nothing deal. Even if Clay gets the recording contract, I think he really deserves some compensation for the tough challenge he was able to mount against Simon's favorite.

Anyone think Simon was relieved that Ruben came out on top?

Joeboo835
05-22-03, 08:24 AM
Anyone have pics of Julia or Kim? I missed last nights show until they said who the winner was.

Btw, Rubens song at the end was the worst i've ever heard. Nice american Idol. I know he was probably overwhelmed from winning, but that was just bad.

Patman
05-22-03, 08:26 AM
What I noticed was how carefree the the final 3 contestants were last night since the competition part was over, and it showed in their performances. They all had nothing to lose at that point anymore, and they were just singing very freely. I dug that.

Big Quasimodo
05-22-03, 08:50 AM
Originally posted by Patman

Anyone think Simon was relieved that Ruben came out on top?

I think Simon would be more relieved to have Ruben on the bottom....

Big Quasimodo
05-22-03, 08:53 AM
P.S. Not to go off on my rant of last year, but really, while both were good singers, neither one of these guys is remotely "Idol" material.

icondude
05-22-03, 08:59 AM
Originally posted by Patman
What I noticed was how carefree the the final 3 contestants were last night since the competition part was over, and it showed in their performances. They all had nothing to lose at that point anymore, and they were just singing very freely. I dug that.

I think it's because all three knew that they were all getting record contracts irregardless of who won. It was implied last night the both Reuben and Clay would have CD's out at some future point in time.

When I was watching the vote spread was 13,000 then corrected to 1,300 (drunken accountant comment). Has it been corrected again to 130,000???

Probably the best part of the whole show was Simon's dream.

Darq
05-22-03, 09:46 AM
Originally posted by icondude
When I was watching the vote spread was 13,000 then corrected to 1,300 (drunken accountant comment). Has it been corrected again to 130,000???

Yeah.. i think Seacrest just has problems reading REALLY big numbers. I'm sure his note card says "24 million votes" rather than "24,000,000 votes".

Anyways, Seacrest DID "correct" it to 1,300 but the correct difference was about 130,000 votes

Ruben: 50.28% of 24 million = 12,067,200 votes
Clay: 49.72% of 24 million = 11,932,800 votes

12067200 - 11932800 = 134,400 vote difference

(130,000 vote difference is MUCH more believable to me than when i first heard "1,300 votes", making me think the voting was a complete sham)

GuessWho
05-22-03, 09:46 AM
Originally posted by icondude
I think it's because all three knew that they were all getting record contracts irregardless of who won. It was implied last night the both Reuben and Clay would have CD's out at some future point in time. Clive Davis has already signed both to contracts.

Clay & Ruben will both have CD singles released in mid-June. This is what Seacrest was referring to when he talkked about CD sales being the real competition.

big whoppa
05-22-03, 10:01 AM
Originally posted by Patman
Too bad the monetary prize is an all-or-nothing deal. Even if Clay gets the recording contract, I think he really deserves some compensation for the tough challenge he was able to mount against Simon's favorite.

Anyone think Simon was relieved that Ruben came out on top?

Being Simon's favorite was seen as a double-edged sword. Last year, that girl, Christina Christian was complaining that she lost mainly because Simon liked her.

Clay and Ruben should thank their lucky stars that this show exists because they probably wouldn't get a second glance by record execs. They may have the voice but they don't fit the "look" of a typical pop star.

big whoppa
05-22-03, 10:08 AM
Check this out: A Clay Aiken pillow case on Amazon.com:

Sexy Sleep with Gorgeous CLAY AIKEN~AMERICAN IDOL pillow case

http://s1.amazon.com/exec/varzea/ts/exchange-glance/Y04X3675304X5535687/qid=1053612497/sr=1-1/104-9728014-5707962#image

Roto
05-22-03, 10:40 AM
Oh sure, NOW everyone is jumping on the Julia bandwagon! :grunt: Where were you guys when she needed you?

Lovely Julia, don't listen to these traitors. I'm the only one that truly loves you http://www.handykult.de/plaudersmilies.de/love/1luvu.gif


Oh dear God, look at those :drool: No! Wait Julia! I didn't mean to -other- ...dammit! No, don't go!

movieking
05-22-03, 11:16 AM
Don't forget that people had at least THREE hours to vote in the final show. They added an extra hour, which would account for the 24 million plus votes...

ChefWinduAZ
05-22-03, 11:56 AM
Originally posted by big whoppa
Being Simon's favorite was seen as a double-edged sword. Last year, that girl, Christina Christian was complaining that she lost mainly because Simon liked her.


But will we ever really know if she was truly voted off? If you remember, the night she was "voted" off she was not there because she had been checked into the hospital the night before. I can't remember why, it might have been due to exhaustion. But the producers could have taken the easy way out and said she was voted off rather than vote someone else off and then have to fill a week. In my opinion Christina lost because of Christina. She couldn't handle the pressure.

xnlt
05-22-03, 11:59 AM
Recount anyone?

http://drudgereport.com/idol1.htm

IDOL host Seacrest added to the confusion by announcing conflicting margins and votes throughout the evening. Seacrest moved from a 1,335 vote difference to a 50.28 per cent score for winner Ruben Studdard, putting him at about 134,000 votes ahead of Clay Aiken.

Seacrest announced a 13,000 vote difference in the first hour of the program, 1,335 votes when he revealed the decision. Finally, after the show, producers revealed a 134,000 margin!

News organizations on the morning after the night before were quoting various final totals.

FOX will launch an internal review of what led to the voter tally confusion, a FOX source told the DRUDGE REPORT.

"As far as we are concerned, the votes are not in dispute," said the insider. "We are looking at how the bad math got on the air."

ChefWinduAZ
05-22-03, 12:07 PM
Originally posted by GuessWho
Clive Davis has already signed both to contracts.

Clay & Ruben will both have CD singles released in mid-June. This is what Seacrest was referring to when he talkked about CD sales being the real competition.

Even though on Amazon both of their singles are listed as being released on June 3rd, this is listed in the description:

"The winner of American Idol Season 2 will have his CD-single released on June 03, 2003. The runner-up will have his CD-single released on June 10, 2003."


Also Clive Davis did say that they both have contracts and he said that they are both in the process of recording their albums. The CD singles have already been recorded. And it is their albums that will be released on the same day.

hgar78
05-22-03, 12:39 PM
honestly, why did it matter who won???? both are getting contracts and both will be in the public eye for the next year (unfortunately).

as for ruben, (i don't watch much of the show and missed all of this week's but) he's NOT much of an entertainer (don't get me wrong, he DOES have a great voice) but he just stands around and sings. when i have seen him perform he just doesn't seem to have much passion about it. whereas clay does. it seems he always sang from the bottom of his heart (but it is difficult to hear him talk ;) (and i'm from arkansas originally).

i also think it's very hypocritical of the judges in how they've handled this 2nd season. they have actually tried to sway the vote and in doing so have not let the audience decide on their own which is what they always preached in the beginning. i think they were afraid to let the audience decide completely b/c then they're fav wouldn't have won. simon is the one who has to work with them later and i think he decides who he wants it to be and then goes from there. i think the decision was made when ruben was put into the bottom 2 that one night. the way the "judges" responded was inappropriate and told the voting public who should be the american "idol" in the end.

MatthewCho
05-22-03, 12:42 PM
I really wanted Clay to win because I thought his voice was amazing.

I liked Ruben as well, but he doesn't have quite the same range. Clay can hit the highs and lows without effort.

Both seemed to have pleasant personalities, which is a rarity for these talent competitions.

The big winner is the public, however. Thankfully radio will be getting a few atypical looking popstars with talent. Normally it is the other way around. Enough with the crossover hip hop that has been flooding the airwaves the past few years. I'm ready for the second coming of Rick Astley and Luther Vandross.

What's fascinating is that everyone, including myself, got wrapped up in the compeition as if it were the Superbowl or Oscars (or even to a larger degree). I actually felt sad for Clay. What's that all about? Both are getting huge exposure and probably the same recording contract. One has the "American Idol" title, and one does not. In the grand scheme it's probably no big deal. However, I hope that Ruben doesn't get a super-huge promotional push in comparison to Clay, because they are equally deserving and they are going after two different target markets.

- Matt

ChefWinduAZ
05-22-03, 12:56 PM
Originally posted by hgar78
i also think it's very hypocritical of the judges in how they've handled this 2nd season. they have actually tried to sway the vote and in doing so have not let the audience decide on their own which is what they always preached in the beginning. i think they were afraid to let the audience decide completely b/c then they're fav wouldn't have won. simon is the one who has to work with them later and i think he decides who he wants it to be and then goes from there. i think the decision was made when ruben was put into the bottom 2 that one night. the way the "judges" responded was inappropriate and told the voting public who should be the american "idol" in the end.

Is this your first time watching American Idol because if you had seen last season you would know that the fans don't give a damn what the judges think. That is why we ended up with Justin Guarini in the final two last season. The fans are going to vote for who they want not who the judges want. That would also explain the early departures of Tamyra last season and Vanessa form this season. That is why I agree with some of the past suggestions of changing the voting next season to voting for the person you want off the show. It may seem harsh but like Simon ,that is the entertainment industry and they need to get used to it. Or they should allow only one vote per household which would really make this a fair competition.

blakader
05-22-03, 12:59 PM
Originally posted by GuessWho
Clive Davis has already signed both to contracts.

Clay & Ruben will both have CD singles released in mid-June. This is what Seacrest was referring to when he talkked about CD sales being the real competition.

Wow thats a lot faster than I thought... cool. Its a really smart move to release them soon..that way the buzz is still hot about them..Alltho a rush job would not be good for sales of either

blakader
05-22-03, 01:01 PM
Originally posted by Big Quasimodo
P.S. Not to go off on my rant of last year, but really, while both were good singers, neither one of these guys is remotely "Idol" material.


I think a lot of screaming teens for both Rebun and Clay would disagree with you.

But Simon was right Clay's look had improved a lot over the months

GuessWho
05-22-03, 01:03 PM
Originally posted by hgar78
they have actually tried to sway the vote and in doing so have not let the audience decide on their own which is what they always preached in the beginning.If they didn't influence the vote then they're pointless, useless, and shouldn't even be on the show once the audience-voting kicks in.

hgar78
05-22-03, 01:12 PM
Originally posted by GuessWho
If they didn't influence the vote then they're pointless, useless, and shouldn't even be on the show once the audience-voting kicks in.

i understand they should critique the performers but when the audience makes a voting decision and all the judges makes disgusted faces and mouth "what the hell" then they're swaying IMO. when they go on talk shows and tell the public who should win, they're swaying the voters. maybe not all of them but their "predictions" are taken to heart by some who feel that they know best.

Goldberg74
05-22-03, 01:50 PM
"You can run, you can hide, but you can't escape my llluuuuaaaaaaavvvvveee!"

Why did they bring him back!!!???

mcbg1
05-22-03, 02:01 PM
I think the AI2 contestants will be used just as a fast and easy cash cow. They aren't considered by RCA Records as long-time record artists, while Kelly, Tamyra and Justin from last year are taking all their time to record and promote their albums, in the long run they will be the true winners IMO

Big Quasimodo
05-22-03, 02:05 PM
Originally posted by blakader
I think a lot of screaming teens for both Rebun and Clay would disagree with you.

But Simon was right Clay's look had improved a lot over the months

I get it: David Cassidy, Leif Garrett, CLAY AIKEN?


WTF is wrong with THAT picture? :lol:

blakader
05-22-03, 02:34 PM
Originally posted by Big Quasimodo
I get it: David Cassidy, Leif Garrett, CLAY AIKEN?


WTF is wrong with THAT picture? :lol:

David who?
Leif who?


:lol:

Flashback
05-22-03, 03:03 PM
Originally posted by hgar78
honestly, why did it matter who won???? both are getting contracts and both will be in the public eye for the next year (unfortunately).

I see a big future for Clay in Broadway Musicals or as Ed Grimley.

icondude
05-22-03, 03:20 PM
Just out of curiosity, I didn't watch the first AI. Were the top two as good as Reuben and Clay?

Big Quasimodo
05-22-03, 03:24 PM
Originally posted by icondude
Just out of curiosity, I didn't watch the first AI. Were the top two as good as Reuben and Clay?

The top two, IMHO, were way better than Ruben and Clay, from the perspective of overall entertainment talent.

From a purely vocal perspective, I would rank Kelly Clarkson and Clay Aiken above Ruben and Justin.

Michael T Hudson
05-22-03, 03:42 PM
http://www.cnn.com/2003/SHOWBIZ/TV/05/22/american.idol.ap/index.html



'Idol' beats Oscars in viewers

Patman
05-22-03, 03:46 PM
That's not surprising. The way AI is structured, the audience has a stake in watching the show, they get to see how their voting efforts affected the final vote.

Patman
05-22-03, 03:47 PM
Also, people say it doesn't matter who won, isn't there the matter of the $1 million that Ruben gets (besides the recording contract), and Clay gets a consolation recording contract?

blakader
05-22-03, 03:51 PM
What is the diference between the wining recording contract and the consolation recording contract?

briank
05-22-03, 03:51 PM
Originally posted by Patman
Also, people say it doesn't matter who won, isn't there the matter of the $1 million that Ruben gets (besides the recording contract), and Clay gets a consolation recording contract?

is it 1 million? I thought it was $100,000.

And I always wondered if even that sum was part of the "record deal" money anyway.

Regurgitator
05-22-03, 03:54 PM
Nobody wins.. they both screw up and lose!

Kal-El
05-22-03, 04:10 PM
'Twas good to see Julia and Carmen again. :D

Rogue588
05-22-03, 04:24 PM
Don't watch this show...never will.

But, I do watch Good Day Live and since they're basically affiliated with FOX, it was "American Idol: the Post Show" today. :yack:

Anyways...[I didn't come in here just to :crap:]...Randy was a guest and they were talking about "conspiracies" and that a rival network exec was demanding a recount. [seriously]

Also, Simon called and said the real controversy was that Clay knew Ruben was going to win.

The story goes like this..

Apparently Ryan wasn't feeling too good [he had a cold or something] and Simon said that affected his ability to remember simple words so they had eveything written down on cards for him. Somehow, Clay got a look at the card five minutes or so before the announcement was made.

They interviewed both Clay & Ruben, but it was before Simon called in..

I'm now going to purge this information from my short term memory..

Patman
05-22-03, 04:39 PM
I'm pretty sure Kelly won $1 million for her win last year (but have no idea if 2nd place gets much in terms of monetary award).

Darq
05-22-03, 04:40 PM
Originally posted by Rogue588
Apparently Ryan wasn't feeling too good [he had a cold or something] and Simon said that affected his ability to remember simple words so they had eveything written down on cards for him. I'm guessing that's how "130,000 votes" got read as "1,300 votes" by Ryan

movieking
05-22-03, 04:43 PM
She didn't win a million dollars. I saw a couple of interviews with her shortly after she won where the interviewers said that she won one million dollars, but she corrected them every time, saying that she did not win a million dollars, but a record contract, along with some money. I know that they continually said a million dollars during the first season, but it was my impression from her that the million dollars included recording, promotions, wardrobe, etc.

GuessWho
05-22-03, 05:10 PM
it's not a million dollars
it's a "million-dollar contract"

do you people not listen when ryan seacrest mentions it? it's clearly a "million-dollar contract"



for all we know, it could be a 10-year, multi-album contract at $100k per year

MatthewCho
05-22-03, 05:18 PM
Originally posted by GuessWho
it's not a million dollars
it's a "million-dollar contract"

do you people not listen when ryan seacrest mentiones it? it's clearly a "million-dollar contract"



for all we know, it could be a 10-year contract with $100k poer year

The $1 million contract simply means that $1 million is devoted to their first album, nothing more. This money goes toward production, promotion, and video costs. It probably also includes an advance (say, 100-200K) which the artist gets to keep. The artist then needs to wait for tours or royalties to obtain more income.

Will Young (UK's winner) was hugely popular, selling well over 1 million copies of his first single in the UK in one week, which is absolutely amazing considering the population. His album was equally as huge, selling several million copies. I read that he netted well under 500K that year.

Artists make their money on tours and promotional tie-ins, not on albums. Additionally, essentially no money is made on singles (they're simply a promotional tool).

There are a few exceptions, however, such as Eminem's selling 10 million or so each time out.

- Matt

mcbg1
05-22-03, 05:19 PM
Her best friend told me she did get a million dollar for her album.

She also got a percentage of money that the tour and related AI items generated. Belive me she is well taken care of and she won't get messed with by her record company.

Patman
05-22-03, 05:26 PM
See, I remember when Kelly won, and she was on the talk shows, and the $1 million prize was always spoken of, and the one thing Kelly did right away was buy her friend, who entered her into the contest, a brand new Corvette because she could easily afford it now (then). The recording contract is basically the record company providing the backing to do all the production/promotion of the album(s).

mcbg1
05-22-03, 05:28 PM
The only thing with Kelly's album is that she won't get a percentage on it until the marketing and production costs are covered.

Otherwise she gets all the money and respect she deserves.

When she won last september, RCA wanted her to record fast an album to be released in November 2002 but when Clive Davis came into the picture, he thought she had a lot of talent and potential so he gave her all the creative freedom she needed on her album. She decided what material she wanted to sing and was in no way pushed by her managers to do things she doesn't want to do.

atari2600
05-22-03, 05:53 PM
Originally posted by criptik28
Yeah...remember, people can vote as many times as they want, within the 2-hour time span. So it's not actually 24 million people...maybe more like 5-10 million actually voting?

thats rediculous. so its which guys fans get through the lines more? it should be one vote per phone line. not who can dial the fastest.

atari2600
05-22-03, 05:55 PM
was anyone else disgusted with that simon dream sequence with paula? UGH.

Patman
05-22-03, 06:38 PM
Originally posted by atari2600
thats rediculous. so its which guys fans get through the lines more? it should be one vote per phone line. not who can dial the fastest.

But how would you implement a "one vote per phone number" rule in actual implementation that isn't overly costly?

mcbg1
05-22-03, 07:06 PM
For those interested, Clay's single is still #1 on amazon.com

Ruben's is #2 followed by Kelly Clarkson " Thankful " at #3

I wonder if Ruben will sell more singles than Clay when it is released.

goofee girl
05-22-03, 07:10 PM
I was happy to see Vanessa back on stage. She was my favorite from the start and sure enough lost in the very first round. I should have been voting from the start and not just for one night.

mcbg1
05-22-03, 07:12 PM
IMO Vanessa was voted off just because people tought the stupid ' monkey ' joke she was forced to say was serious.

She deserved to stay in the competition for a few more rounds, she had a great voice and she had a fun personality compared to a lot of the other contestants.

Iron_Giant
05-22-03, 07:13 PM
Originally posted by icondude
Just out of curiosity, I didn't watch the first AI. Were the top two as good as Reuben and Clay?
Not even close.

R & C were head and shoulders above the past two winners (Kelly Clarkson and runner-up Justin Guarini).

I was imbarrassed everytime the past 2 winners came on AI2.

Their songs and vocals were the pits.

My wife said she is looking forward to buying both R & C's CDs.

Tamyra Gray (voted off in AI 1) has more talent than Kelly & Justin.

I predict K & J will be forgotten very soon, their movie will be the death of both of their singing carrers.

mcbg1
05-22-03, 07:19 PM
Yeah right Iron_Giant lol

Their movie won't be oscar material but I saw a preview of the final product ( not the clips shown on AI2 ) and it looks like a fun musical film that should do great in the summer. It might not get #1 but still it won't be a total flop I'm sure.

As far as Tamyra goes she had a great voice but had no personality and wasn't as versatile as Kelly , that's why she got voted off at 4th place. I'm looking forward to her album and I think she and Kelly will have a long and successful career.

IMO Ruben and Clay are just used to make some quick money, that's why both of their singles/albums will be released soon on the same date.

wait and see my friend... :)

Patman
05-22-03, 07:43 PM
Anyone heard Clay's other recordings from his past (mainly uplifting songs)? He's definitely had some studio time, and was no rank amateur.

mcbg1
05-22-03, 07:43 PM
He heard he had recorded a demo but haven't listened to it yet.

ChefWinduAZ
05-22-03, 08:01 PM
Originally posted by mcbg1
Their movie won't be oscar material but I saw a preview of the final product ( not the clips shown on AI2 ) and it looks like a fun musical film that should do great in the summer. It might not get #1 but still it won't be a total flop I'm sure.


If you had followed the summer movie trend for the past twenty years you would know that releasing this movie during the summer is a sure fire way to guarantee it to flop. It was originally slated for April and I don't know why in the world they changed the date. Summer equals big budget action flicks and Disney animtion. The last musical to do well recently was Moulin Rogue and Justin & Kelly sure as hell aren't Nicole and Ewan. This movie is going to be up against The Hulk, Charlie's Angels 2 and other films that may be mediocre but will make more money than the American Idol movie. IMHO this movie should have never been made in the first place.

mcbg1
05-22-03, 08:12 PM
It was pushed because first of all the movie was shot in January and the editing, sound mixing, etc couldn't be completed 100 % for April 25th.

Second of all, test screenings truely went well and It's a kids flick so they pushed it to June when kids are out of school.

If you know what you are talking about, you would have known that Chicago was the last musical to do well.

You say it is up against The Hulk, Charlies Angels 2 etc and that's why I think it will do great. It's something different. It might not be #1 on the box office but you will see that it will generate good money...

MatthewCho
05-22-03, 08:14 PM
Originally posted by Patman
Anyone heard Clay's other recordings from his past (mainly uplifting songs)? He's definitely had some studio time, and was no rank amateur.

Neither is Ruben. He's been training for years, even passing up a football scholarship to focus on his singing career.

- Matt

ChefWinduAZ
05-22-03, 08:23 PM
Originally posted by mcbg1
He heard he had recorded a demo but haven't listened to it yet.

You have access to his demo tape?

ChefWinduAZ
05-22-03, 08:33 PM
Originally posted by mcbg1
If you know what you are talking about, you would have known that Chicago was the last musical to do well.

You say it is up against The Hulk, Charlies Angels 2 etc and that's why I think it will do great. It's something different. It might not be #1 on the box office but you will see that it will generate good money...

I stand corrected but you also proved my point because what time of year was Chicago released.....winter. Seeing that you are an overly huge Kelly Clarkson fan I would think that you would still be able to put that aside and look at the previews and clips and admit that the movie looks corny and cheesy, no matter who it is aimed at. I am a big Mariah Carey fan. Have been since she started and have all of her albums but I will admit that Glitter stunk big time. And it as well was delayed numerous time and went through a name change.

mcbg1
05-22-03, 08:37 PM
First you can download Clay's demo work on a lot of his fan sites.

Second of all, I agree 2 of the biggest musicals in recent years got released in winter time but so what that doesn't mean '' From Justin To Kellly' won't be successful if it's released in the summer. It's a summer movie and it looks cheesy but it'll be fun in a good way, just be open minded.

As far as Glitter goes, I'm a big Mariah Carey fan myself and I hated Glitter but If she hadn't had her breakdown in the month before it's release and if she could have done the promotion, I'm sure the movie would have been more successful...

Patman
05-22-03, 08:52 PM
Maybe it's me, but did Clay seem to have bigger moments and finishes in the overall competition, i.e. his AI highlights reel would be pretty impressive?

I'm not saying he didn't have a stinker or two, but he just seemed to have the kind of moments where you can tell he just swept the audience away with him in the song?

ChefWinduAZ
05-22-03, 09:04 PM
Not to say Clay can't sing but I would notice from time to time that when the song was not that good to make up for it he would end the song on a long high note. And I notice that a lot of his fans always mention that high note but not the rest of the song. What good is that last high note if no one sticks around to hear the whole song.

movieking
05-22-03, 09:04 PM
I think that Clay had higher high points than Ruben, but I think that Ruben had a better average (i.e. consistency).

MatthewCho
05-22-03, 10:14 PM
Originally posted by movieking
I think that Clay had higher high points than Ruben, but I think that Ruben had a better average (i.e. consistency).

IMO both were generally consistent, but Clay has a better voice. Don't get me wrong, I liked Ruben, but thought he was overrated from the start (i.e., was his voice or personality really better than Hercules'?).

The judging was surely a bit partial towards Ruben as well. Clay received many comments about him always sounding the same. Wasn't Ruben similar throughout?

Also, Clay was surely a bit dorky looking early on (especially at the tryouts), but where were the sloppy comments for Ruben? The other night he wore a creme colored jogging suit. Now, come on! I know he is huge, but that's not excuse for being unpresentable. The judges babied him, and Kimberly even talked to the press about it before she got kicked off (she mentioned that producers were constantly mentioning that they wanted Ruben to win).

Conspiracy?

I also read that the random song that Clay sang the other week and forgot a line was due to the producers adding a verse 20 minutes before the show aired. Apparently the crowd in the studio was told of this but it was explained in the broadcast.

And remember that red-haired girl's rude comment (calling him a "monkey") toward Ryan Seacrest that was scripted? She likely got kicked off that week because of it. Anyone know why she's the only performer not on the tour?

- Matt

TheAllPurposeNothing
05-22-03, 10:49 PM
Originally posted by Joeboo835
Anyone have pics of Julia or Kim? I missed last nights show until they said who the winner was.


Always aim to please. Here are the girls during the medley:

from left to right: Julia, Carmen, and Kim

http://www.theforumisdown.com/uploadfiles/0103/idolgirls.jpg

blakader
05-22-03, 11:08 PM
Originally posted by Patman
Maybe it's me, but did Clay seem to have bigger moments and finishes in the overall competition, i.e. his AI highlights reel would be pretty impressive?

I'm not saying he didn't have a stinker or two, but he just seemed to have the kind of moments where you can tell he just swept the audience away with him in the song?

I felt the same way about Clay. The power he brings to the finishing notes really is breathtaking

blakader
05-22-03, 11:10 PM
Originally posted by mcbg1
It was pushed because first of all the movie was shot in January and the editing, sound mixing, etc couldn't be completed 100 % for April 25th.

Second of all, test screenings truely went well and It's a kids flick so they pushed it to June when kids are out of school.

If you know what you are talking about, you would have known that Chicago was the last musical to do well.

You say it is up against The Hulk, Charlies Angels 2 etc and that's why I think it will do great. It's something different. It might not be #1 on the box office but you will see that it will generate good money...

I predict that the movie wont do that well in the theaters but will do better when released to home video, Also people don't like to pay for things that they got for free before. But hey...I could be wrong

movieking
05-23-03, 07:45 AM
Ruben is on the Today show now, and Matt Lauer mentioned that a couple of papers have reported that Clay knew that Ruben won a few minutes earlier, because he peeked at the card. Ruben said that he didn't know.

I noticed that when Ryan was saying something about the votes (either one of those stupid state winning things, or the closeness of the vote), he let Clay look at the card. I thought that it was strange, and I assumed that it was a different card that the one that contained the final info. Maybe not?

Patman
05-23-03, 08:16 AM
It wouldn't be the first time Ryan was careless with the results, he did the same in the Wildcard results show.

Oh overheard on the radio talk shows:

What does Ruben sweat: Gravy.

MatthewCho
05-23-03, 08:37 AM
The Real American Idol Scandal: Clay Knew
by Sting7 -- 05/22/2003

The day after American Idol's finale, we learn more about some surprising things that happened behind the scenes, the voting scandal, the future of Simon and Randy, and... did Clay know before the results were read?

The day after the American Idol finale, and all the magazine shows have some exclusive or another. But, some fascinating facts are coming out!

Fox’s Good Day Live had Randy Jackson as the guest for the whole show. Randy admitted that most of those involved in the show partied the whole night at Sky Bar in Los Angeles, including Clay Aiken and Ruben Studdard (a female contestant who shall remain nameless who was really drunk!). Clay teased a much more animated Ruben that he will actually get to get some sleep, while Ruben has more interviews to do. Both headed to New York, including a certain stop at MTV’s TRL. Clay’s schedule is not as hectic as Ruben’s but he will be working awfully hard in the next couple of weeks.

Clay also said that his mother and Ruben’s mother have become very close while doing the enormous amount of press just for being the finalists’ mothers. While Ruben was singing “Flying Without Wings” to close out the show, wonder where Clay went? He went through the audience to hug his mother... and got a big hug and a kiss on the cheek and a “you did good, baby!” from Ruben’s Mom.

Of course, the voting scandal that has Clay Nation spitting nails was discussed. Randy said it is ridiculous, the only thing that went wrong was that Ryan Seacrest, who was so sick and medicated (so he could get through the show), misread the cards. First card said 130,000, second said 133,500. Did he think he saw a decimal point? Maybe. Reportedly an “anonymous head network executive” thinks the vote was bogus. Randy said some people should go get a life. No word on the alleged “anomaly” that had been reported, but yesterday’s Good Day Live had been reporting an extremely close vote that was being double and triple checked.

So what about this mysterious network executive, who went on to call American Idol’s vote “a modern day $64,000 Question scandal?” Would a rival network want to rain on a Fox’s parade, not to mention the monster rating American Idol pulled last night? (Idol almost doubled the rating of its nearest competition, with nearly 40 million people watching the final half-hour. Meanwhile, ABC’s “The Final Rose,” the Bachelor aftermath show, was beaten to tar, much to ABC‘s horror.) Nooo, certainly not!

By the way, Ryan was too sick to go to the wrap party, and Ryan Seacrest missing a party is a sure sign that he must be near death!

Later, on Good Day Live, an amusingly hungover Simon Cowell phoned in with what he called the real American Idol scandal; Clay told Simon that he saw the results a few minutes before Ryan read them! In that droll voice Simon says, "Ryan is so brilliant, he had to see Clay and Ruben's names on a card, like he doesn't know who they are!” The story goes like this: during the commercial break after Clay, Ruben, and Kimberley sang their medley. Clay was backstage with Ryan, and simply glanced down at Ryan’s card while he was distracted, and saw that Ruben had won! “What's amusing is Clay was trying to convince Ruben of this while Ryan was talking!" (They showed a clip of Clay chattering away at Ruben, and they slowed it down, Clay’s lips seemed to say, "You won, I saw it!" Ruben's answer, the only time he actually responded to Clay, was "I what?" Then Clay went on saying he didn't want to look at the camera, then he thinks he saw it right, but he's sure Ruben won, ‘you did it, you're the American Idol!’) Randy called Clay a sneaky little cuss! The hosts commented that Clay sure did seem to have a lot to say, Simon said he was “prattling like a schoolgirl through the whole thing!” (This news was given in good humor, Randy and Simon didn't see that any harm was done.)

Speaking of Simon, any truth to the rumors that he won’t be back? Will Simon return for American Idol 3? "I wish I could say ‘yes’… but I can't." Why? Randy bellows for Simon to tell the truth, pause, “I can't." One of the hosts asked if it was about money, Simon said it honestly is not about money, Randy offered that Simon is about to fly out to start Pop Idol 2 in England, which will be almost a solid year of judging and “it's starting to get a bit old for him.” Simon didn't disagree with that, or agree. Of course, Cupid, Simon’s solo jaunt into reality TV, will be starting up soon as well. Is Simon spreading himself too thin? There were also reports that Simon wants to go back to his record label chores, and get out from under the spotlight. Hmmm.

Then the topic shifted to the British press accusing him of going soft on the Americans this year, Simon’s answer is, “I think they want me to carry an Uzi out on stage, or something,” but admits he was not as mean this year, because the contestants were more talented and he didn’t have as much to complain about.

Well, at least we’ll still have Randy won’t we? Randy, you’re returning right? Big pause... "probably." Jillian Barberie and Dorothy Lucey shriek in anguish, Randy continues that he intends to return, but you never know what could happen. Hmmmm. Randy will be working on the Mariah Carey tour this summer.

Then, EXTRA clued us in on what Ruben said to Clay on Tuesday night as the show was closing. Many assumed he said “I think you won” but, Clay says Ruben actually said, “look at those women!” Ruben agrees, “I was like, dawg! Look at all them girls screaming for you! And, they were looking good!”

A former idol in his own right, Neil Sedaka, says Clive Davis spoke with him about Clay recording “Solitaire” on Clay’s album! It looks like it’s going to happen!

Patman
05-23-03, 08:52 AM
So I take it no one wants to see a "From Clay to Ruben" summer movie in the making?

Patman
05-23-03, 08:58 AM
The AI2 finale pulled in 34.2 million viewers, which was the 2nd best performance by a reality TV show (Joe Millionaire was the best by pulling in 34.7 million for its finale).

MatthewCho
05-23-03, 08:59 AM
Originally posted by Patman
So I take it no one wants to see a "From Clay to Ruben" summer movie in the making?

It actually sounds more interesting.....

- Matt

Michael T Hudson
05-23-03, 06:41 PM
Fox: AI's Ryan Seacrest was given faulty numbers
Associated Press

LOS ANGELES - Turns out "American Idol" host Ryan Seacrest can read.

On the Fox talent-search show's finale Wednesday, Seacrest twice announced incorrect numbers in describing how close the final vote was between winner Ruben Studdard and runner-up Clay Aiken.

"It wasn't his fault," Fox spokesman Scott Grogin said Friday. The first incorrect figure - 13,000 - was displayed on the TelePrompTer; the second - 1,300 - was written on a card given Seacrest.

The actual spread between the two contestants, out of nearly 24 million votes counted, was about 130,000, according to the network.

Grogin did not detail how Seacrest was given wrong information or by whom.

Michael T Hudson
05-23-03, 06:42 PM
Originally posted by TheAllPurposeNothing
Always aim to please. Here are the girls during the medley:

from left to right: Julia, Carmen, and Kim

http://www.theforumisdown.com/uploadfiles/0103/idolgirls.jpg


That is the movie I want to see.

guywall
05-23-03, 07:31 PM
Kim is going to be a star.
(Of course, you can decide what kind of star she will be...)

MatthewCho
05-23-03, 08:32 PM
Originally posted by BigDaddy
That is the movie I want to see.

I have a great idea. Let's call it Showgirls.

- Matt

blakader
05-23-03, 08:40 PM
Originally posted by Patman
So I take it no one wants to see a "From Clay to Ruben" summer movie in the making?

Maybe not... but how about a buddy comedy?
That could be really bad.....but in a good way :)

zuffy
05-23-03, 09:30 PM
Originally posted by BigDaddy
That is the movie I want to see.

No matter how bad it is, as long as they'll showcase Julia and Carmen :hump:

big whoppa
05-23-03, 10:14 PM
Originally posted by Big Quasimodo
The top two, IMHO, were way better than Ruben and Clay, from the perspective of overall entertainment talent.

From a purely vocal perspective, I would rank Kelly Clarkson and Clay Aiken above Ruben and Justin.

Guarini talented? At best, he was a lounge singer with teeny-bopper appeal.

big whoppa
05-23-03, 10:18 PM
Originally posted by mcbg1
IMO Vanessa was voted off just because people tought the stupid ' monkey ' joke she was forced to say was serious.

She deserved to stay in the competition for a few more rounds, she had a great voice and she had a fun personality compared to a lot of the other contestants.

I agree. She could have also gotten further if she just toned down her hair a tad. Not so in your face.

Jadzia
05-24-03, 11:44 AM
So if Ruben suddenly drops from a heart attack, will Clay have to fulfill his duties as American Idol 2003?

Patman
05-24-03, 01:09 PM
Dunno, but they'll probably have to take in that AI sash to fit Clay.

the aftermath
05-24-03, 02:39 PM
The only thing Julia has going for her are a nice pair of tig ol' bitties. She has NO shape whatsoever, and she was stiff as hell on stage.

ChefWinduAZ
05-24-03, 05:25 PM
Originally posted by Jadzia
So if Ruben suddenly drops from a heart attack, will Clay have to fulfill his duties as American Idol 2003?

You guys sure are having fun with the fat jokes. :rolleyes:

Patman
05-24-03, 05:48 PM
On Entertainment Tonight, Mary Hart asked Ruben about him being a big guy and whether it would affect him with his new super hectic schedule. Ruben replied that he was in good shape. (I'm dubious of that assessment).

potvin48
05-25-03, 12:19 AM
anyone have or know where I can find a list of all the songs that everyone sang on AI2 ?

toq
05-25-03, 01:09 AM
Episode guide for American Idol 2 (http://tvtome.com/tvtome/servlet/EpisodeGuideSummary/showid-11307/) - the web page refers to it as "American Idol - Season 2" which is essentially AI2. It provides a quick summary of each episode and where relevant, lists the songs of each contestant.

Pop Idol guide (http://www.thecustard.tv/shows/popidol.html#americanidol2) - this web page seems to be based in the UK by a fan of the original Pop Idol who goes on to provide information about Pop Idol and both iterations of its U.S. counterparts—American Idol 1 and American Idol 2. The American Idol 1 overview isn't too informative but the American Idol 2 overview lists each of the final contestants and the songs they sang.

Hope this helps. :)

MatthewCho
05-25-03, 03:11 PM
For Clay fans, you can download mp3s here:

www.clayaikenonline.com

His single is still #1 on Amazon.

- Matt