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View Full Version : Why do groups have such a problem with Disney specificly?


Pants
05-15-03, 03:42 PM
This is from the IMDb 5/15:

Disney has again come under attack from conservatives as a result of the decision by its Miramax unit to back Michael Moore's (Bowling for Columbine) next documentary, Fahrenheit 911. On Wednesday, Steve Wood, who operates the Republican website GOPUSA.com, took note of the fact that some conservatives are talking about boycotting Disney products and cancelling vacations at the Disney theme parks, "and I'd have to say that we will certainly think twice now about spending our hard-earned money at Disney, knowing that it might be used to support someone like Michael Moore. ... Disney has every right to fund Michael Moore, but we also have every right to take that into consideration when we choose how to spend our disposable income." Tom Perrault of the Christian-conservative Crosswalk website wrote Wednesday that Disney ought to "refrain from actively supporting an anti-family and/or anti-conservative agenda." Perrault also objected to the fact that the voice of Ellen DeGeneres is featured in the upcoming Pixar/Disney cartoon, Finding Nemo. He concludes: "With literally hundreds and hundreds of perfectly viable options, Disney goes with someone whose personal lifestyle is antithetical to the throngs of families who are supposed to eagerly flock to the theaters on May 30th [when Nemo opens]."

Now without this turning into another god damn michael moore sucks and/or rules thread I want to discuss why these conservative (and some liberal) groups hold Disney to such a hight standard.

Nobody boycotted MGM when they distributed Michael Moore's last film. But when Disney distributes something everyone craps.

As for the Elen thing, who do these groups think makes these movies? I would hazard to guess that every single movie ever made has had at least one gay person work on it. No one cared when Elton John wrote the music for the Lion King.

Kevin Smith discussed the protest over Dogma on his Evening w/ KS DVD and the point he made was that these groups weren't protesting Dogma, they were protesting Dogma: Released By Disney. As soon as Disney sold off the film to Lions Gate, the protests ended. The protesters felt they'd won, even though the film was still coming out as schedueled, simply because Disney wasn't releasing it any more.

Do these people think such a thing as "Disney Magic" still exists or something? Why do they hold disney to such a high standard? They're just another media conglomerate.

wendersfan
05-15-03, 03:46 PM
Disney provides (roughly) the same benefits to the partners of gay employees that they do the spouses of married employees. Conservative Christian groups oppose this policy. I don't know the specifics of what the benefits are, which is why I'm being vague.

Pants
05-15-03, 03:48 PM
I realize that, but so do other companies. Why is disney heald to such a hight standard? It's like these groups expect Disney to set the moral tone of the country or something. Their just running a business.

I can already tell this is going to turn into a list of all the things that Disney has been protested for in the past, so go ahead and list them all (if you can)

Groucho
05-15-03, 03:52 PM
Originally posted by Pants
No one cared when Elton John wrote the music for the Lion King.Don't forget Howard Ashman, who did the lyrics for The Little Mermaid, Beauty and the Beast, and Aladdin.

These are fringe groups who are speaking the loudest. They are basically like the Ku Klux Klan, only they target gays instead of Jews and Blacks.

wendersfan
05-15-03, 03:53 PM
Originally posted by Pants
I realize that, but so do other companies. Why is disney heald to such a hight standard? It's like these groups expect Disney to set the moral tone of the country or something. Their just running a business.
But don't you realize they are the moral arbiters for our children? They must be held accountable!!

In other words, I agree it's ridiculous.

LBPound
05-15-03, 04:11 PM
Originally posted by Pants
As for the Elen thing, who do these groups think makes these movies? I would hazard to guess that every single movie ever made has had at least one gay person work on it. No one cared when Elton John wrote the music for the Lion King.

No kidding. And the head of Disney Animation was, for a long time, Thomas Shumacher who is very gay.

littlefuzzy
05-15-03, 05:49 PM
I can't speak for these groups, but my problems with Disney are:

Song of the South
Fool Frame "Family" movies
no more two-disc editions for the animated movies
Foreign movies that are cut, dubbed, and don't have the original music
The COLORIZATION of Absentminded Professor
Editing of movies such as The Santa Clause, Roger Rabbit, Fantasia, etc.
Discontinuing the Vault Disney editions
Home Improvement is only the "10 best" shows
and the fact that they feel their animated movies are for 4-10 year olds and their parents...

greatjedi
05-15-03, 06:57 PM
I think the problem lies in the fact that for so many decades Disney represented the best in wholesome Family entertainment. People are under the false impression that, based on the past, the Walt Disney Company should always be a moral example and set the standard for family entertainment.

What people fail to understand is that:
1) We're not living under the studio system anymore.
2) Walt Disney is no longer living.
3) The Walt Disney Company is not, and never was, responsible for the morality of the American family.

I remember as a little kid I was watching "The Journey of Natty Gann", and my mother was shocked that there was swearing in a Disney movie. She was further shocked when she found out that Touchstone is a division of Disney.

I agree that this issue is completely ridiculous. But like I said: people - especially those that grew up in the 'golden age' of Disney - just can't get over the fact that times change, and companies have to keep up.

Disneyland is still a great place to take the family for wholesome entertainment. Mickey Mouse is still a good guy. And I guarantee that we'll never see a "Farenheit 911" ride, or an "It's a Gay World After All" attraction.

Jepthah
05-15-03, 09:50 PM
Every so often a political group has to throw around its weight, so they go after a highly visible company like Disney. What is almost as sad as their misguided across-the-board boycotting which reflects badly on them and not what they are protesting is how ineffective it proves to be. In fact, the more people get red-faced and vocal about Moore's movie, the more it gets talked about, the more business it will do and the more people will see it. The winners? Moore and Disney.

(referring to DeGeneres' voice acting in Finding Nemo) "With literally hundreds and hundreds of perfectly viable options, Disney goes with someone whose personal lifestyle is antithetical to the throngs of families who are supposed to eagerly flock to the theaters on May 30th [when Nemo opens]."

I find this quote particularly stupid and loathsome. :lol: Ellen DeGeneres' voice acting in between chowing on her GF's box is really threatening your nuclear family values, bud, right. The power of her voice in a magical process of osmosis will turn your innocent Christian daughters gay. -rolleyes-

Scot1458
05-15-03, 10:04 PM
Disneyworld will NOT do background checks for pediphiles and child molestors.

Why...make a guess. There have been many books written on the child abuse that happens at the Disney theme parks, and how they cover it up.

Eisner is the anti-Christ IMO. And for a business who's Mission is to enterain children, having a "gay day" doesn't seem to enforce this idea.

funkyryno
05-15-03, 10:36 PM
Originally posted by Scot1458
Disneyworld will NOT do background checks for pediphiles and child molestors.


I assume you're talking about the book, "Disney: The Mouse Betrayed: Greed, Corruption, and Children at Risk."

Get Me Coffee
05-15-03, 10:50 PM
blame it on the born-agains cult

DVDGUY1116
05-15-03, 10:53 PM
I do not have a problem with Disney offering benefits to Gay spouses or having "Gay Day's." Actually, I think that is a good move by a company that big because I feel as though it promotes acceptance and tolerance of others. We really need more of that in this world. I have not heard of the child abuse claims about Disney so I will refrain from commentating on them. What I find very ironic is that the Disney films with the most "intense" content are the animated films but nobody says anything about them. I wonder if the groups complaining would go even more ape-s*** if they noticed that Horror distributor Dimension is an arm of Disney.

Speaking for myself, I have a 9 month old daughter that I cannot wait to take to Disney World, when she gets older, and expose her to the experience of the various Disney animated films. I do not have a problem with them in anyway because I know that my daughter is NOT going to get her morals and values from Disney, or any other public eye entity, but her loving Mother and Father! Isn't that what this all comes down to eventually? I am, of course, talking about people trying to deflect "parental" responsibility from themselves onto something or somebody else.

Josh-da-man
05-16-03, 01:29 AM
Originally posted by funkyryno
I assume you're talking about the book, "Disney: The Mouse Betrayed: Greed, Corruption, and Children at Risk."

I read that book. It was hilarious - laugh out loud funny.

Much more entertaining than the typical Regnery trash.

funkyryno
05-16-03, 01:48 AM
Originally posted by Josh-da-man
Much more entertaining than the typical Regnery trash.

Regnery, isn't that William J. Bennett's publisher? Just reading the descriptions about some of their books makes my head hurt.

Giantrobo
05-16-03, 02:30 AM
I don't care about Gay Benefits. However, if the same benefits aren't given to Hetero-couples LIVING together then it's kind of discriminatory right? Years ago a man sued some company for this very reason.

Anyway, Disney was the "Wholesome Family Outlet" at one time and "Pro-Family" folks felt betryaed by the way things have changed at Di$ney. It's almost as if the company went out of it's way to give "the finger" to "Family Entertainment".

As far as the "Gay days" I used to hear, mind you I work in a conservative environment, that people didn't care about "Gay Days"...HOWEVER,-THEY DID- care that Disney didn't give Families fair warning so they could come another day if they choose to do so.

Whatever...

I don't need Di$ney to tell me how to live my life. But then again I don't have kids....

Groucho
05-16-03, 07:23 AM
Originally posted by Giantrobo
I don't care about Gay Benefits. However, if the same benefits aren't given to Hetero-couples LIVING together then it's kind of discriminatory right?I believe that Disney does offer the same benefits to co-habiting Hetero couples. I imagine mrpayroll can enlighten us on this.

Even if they didn't, I wouldn't consider it discriminatory, since hetero couples have the option of getting married but same-sex couples do not.As far as the "Gay days" I used to hear, mind you I work in a conservative environment, that people didn't care about "Gay Days"...HOWEVER,-THEY DID- care that Disney didn't give Families fair warning so they could come another day if they choose to do so.That's assuming that "Gay Day" is an official event sanctioned by Disney. It is not.

LBPound
05-16-03, 07:58 AM
Originally posted by littlefuzzy
Home Improvement is only the "10 best" shows

Just found out that this isn't even coming this year, now. Hopefully it means they'll do it right in season sets, but why are they waiting so long?

Pants
05-16-03, 11:51 AM
Originally posted by Scot1458
Disneyworld will NOT do background checks for pediphiles and child molestors.

Why...make a guess. There have been many books written on the child abuse that happens at the Disney theme parks, and how they cover it up.

Eisner is the anti-Christ IMO. And for a business who's Mission is to enterain children, having a "gay day" doesn't seem to enforce this idea. What are you talking about? Are you refering to the urban legands about children being kidnapped from the theme parks.

How do people suggest Disney go about doing a background check on everyone who comes through the turnstyle?

Groucho
05-16-03, 11:56 AM
Originally posted by Pants
How do people suggest Disney go about doing a background check on everyone who comes through the turnstyle? :lol: And you thought the lines took forever now!

Pants
05-16-03, 12:00 PM
As the thread starter I'd like to point out that I'm very conflicted about Disney. The biggest problem I see is not the shift in content or approach but rather the shift in QUALITY. Their new films don't hold a candle to their classics. It's reached a point where I wish someone would put a moratorium on "improvements" to Disneyland. Every new attraction they've built in the last 20 years is TERRIBLE. Very little of their contemporary output is any good.

Bottom Line: Everyone has some axe to grind with Disney, but to protest the films they chose to finance and distribute is silly. They have to go with what will be profitable. In 1954 family films were profitable. In 2003 it's something else. that's just the way it goes.

What the hell is Gay Day? Is that a day for gays at Disneyland or is it an employee day.

I can't blame Disney for throwing a bone to gays. You have to placate your employees with silly stuff that makes them feel they're empowered, whether it be Hawaiian shirt day or casual friday. When you've got a lot of gay employees you through them a bone...a gay bone :)

Groucho
05-16-03, 12:03 PM
Originally posted by Pants
What the hell is Gay Day? Is that a day for gays at Disneyland or is it an employee day.It's a day where traditionally gays from around the world go to Disneyland. It's 100% unofficial.

Here's the scoop if you want to attend the event in October:

www.gayday2.com

Pants
05-16-03, 12:10 PM
Disney can't be heald responsible for that. But what day is it exactly so I'm sure to miss it?

mrpayroll
05-16-03, 12:54 PM
Originally posted by Groucho
I believe that Disney does offer the same benefits to co-habiting Hetero couples. I imagine mrpayroll can enlighten us on this.

Even if they didn't, I wouldn't consider it discriminatory, since hetero couples have the option of getting married but same-sex couples do not.That's assuming that "Gay Day" is an official event sanctioned by Disney. It is not. [/B]

Sorry for the delay, I've just been briefed http://www.dvdtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=3651157#post3651157.

I don't have the definitive answer to your question, but I did ask a friend here, 'montecristo', and he believes that hetero couples were given the same priviledges as same sex couples just a couple of years ago. Kind of interesting that it came years after the controversial decision to give it same sex couples.

Hey the bottom line in all of this is money! How much money can something make for Disney. Hey, we own Miramax pictures, the king of controversial movies. If Michael Moore (dislike him with a passion) can make money for Disney, then I'm sure the execs are 100% behind him. But if his movies start tanking, they will drop him like a hot potato. It's all about the benjamins.

If you really think about it, Disney really doesn't have many family friendly movies anymore. Just look at Lilo & Stitch. I really didn't like it because the humor seem to be kind of rough and crass, and totally not appropriate for lets say a 7 year old kid. Lilo is this whiney girl, who talks back to her sister all the time. A kid sees this and gets the idea that something like that is okay and does it with their parents.

So Disney walks the fine line of being an historically family friendly company (which made them what they are), but in this day and age, they are going to do whatever it takes to increase profits. Including even selling their Disney stores. So values are out the door and profits are in! Just my take on this.

Chris

leepyswetr
05-16-03, 12:56 PM
Originally posted by Pants
It's reached a point where I wish someone would put a moratorium on "improvements" to Disneyland. Every new attraction they've built in the last 20 years is TERRIBLE. Oh come on. Surely you don't believe that.

Indiana Jones Adventure - amazing
Fantasmic - amazing
Splash Mountain - great

Pants
05-16-03, 01:19 PM
Indiana Jones Adventure - only single thing that they've done good
Fantasmic - not an attraction (but what about Light Magic that ruled -rolleyes- )
Splash Mountain - nothing special

And then there's Toon Town (total crap), new tommorrow land (total crap), Rocket Rods (what Rocket Rods?), they got rid of The Skyway, the Submarines, Mission to Mars, Circle Vision, and the People Mover and replaced them with NOTHING!!!!

I have to go to the park with blinders on, like a psychic filter. In order to have fun I have to ignore so many little things: the loss of so many great attractions, the additions of cheap new attractions that won't and don't stand the test of time, the proliferation of soviegner stands that fill up the gaps where rides used to be, and that no longer sell unique items (just the same stuff in every store)

As you can see it's a pet peve of mine :)

nice_skis
05-16-03, 01:27 PM
Originally posted by mrpayroll

If you really think about it, Disney really doesn't have many family friendly movies anymore. Just look at Lilo & Stitch. I really didn't like it because the humor seem to be kind of rough and crass, and totally not appropriate for lets say a 7 year old kid. Lilo is this whiney girl, who talks back to her sister all the time. A kid sees this and gets the idea that something like that is okay and does it with their parents.

What do you mean? All the main characters in a kid's flick should have a perfectly nice attitude? What do you make out of characters like Pinnochio then? or Mowgly?

God forbids my son should ever see Donald's nephews. I mean, they could totally wreck his life and turn him into a hoodlum. ;)

Face it people, Disney movies don't raise kids. That's their parent's job. If you don't want your kids badly influenced, you should never let them get near a tv set or even get out of the house. But then again, you'd probably have to live like a mormon just to make sure. :D

And to answer the thread starter, I think the origin of the problem is Walt Disney himself. He wanted to create a sanitized world with his theme parks. He probably understood that if his name became a seal of qiuality for familly entertainment, the parents would throw their tykes in movie houses and theme parks without asking questions.

But like someone else said it earlier, the days of Uncle Walt ended and now, the corporation is still sucking from mom's purse and daddie's wallet.

By the way, in my humble opinion, the gay politics at Disney are an example to be followed all over the world.

Now if there are no more right-wing-rednecks at Disneyworld, doesn't that means that the waiting lines will be shorter? Great! :D :D :D