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View Full Version : All These Comparisons To Ep I are Complete Bosh


ckolchak
05-13-03, 03:02 AM
the reason why people were disappointed w/ Ep I was because it was Lucas still in his 'pandering to seven year olds in the audience' mode.
the action and the effects were fine, it was just need to insert fart jokes and sub-tween friendly creatures that made it insufferable when all was said and done.

TMR is nothing like this.
the people amped up for this , by and large, are action movie drones.
They'll quaff down just about anything bright & shiny as long as its visceral and LOVE it.
and the one thing TMR is, is VISCERAL.

you guys are gonna go ape$&%t over a bunch of the sequences here.
and when its done your gonna wish you had bought tickets to the next showing.

trust me.
if you like Michael Bay movies, you'll LOVE TMR. it is the ULTIMATE 'pause your rationale reasoning and just enjoy' popcorn flick in many a moon...IF EVER!

Jackskeleton
05-13-03, 04:34 AM
Another reason why Ep1 failed was because of the hype monster that lead to it. I was starting to worry about Reloaded when every product around tries to use the matrix in selling it's products. Also, after the first trilogy, the fans wouldn't have been happy even if jesus walked out of the screen. it was way to long from the original trilogy to the new trilogy that everyone had soo much high hopes and such expectations that no one could fill them. either way... I cant wait till wednesday. :)

caiman
05-13-03, 08:05 AM
Bosh
Subtween
Quaff


Wow, I just learned three new words.


But more on topic, I'm curious about your Michael Bay comment. I just can't believe that a comparison between The Matrix Reloaded and Michael Bay's movies can be reasonable. Either you didn't like the Reloaded as much as you seemed to, or I just hate Michael Bay much more than you do. Granted, I haven't seen Reloaded yet, but I sure as hell hope it's better than Bay's crapfests.

ckolchak
05-13-03, 11:19 AM
i hear a lot of people on these boards saying they have no problem with Bays movies because they take them for exactly what they are 'dumb popcorn movies'.
if all you need is a framework to provide action set-pieces (and wicked as all hell action set pieces) at regular, predictable intervals-
then TMR will give you that, plus a small side of intellec'chul stimulation.

if you are the kind of person craving a stimulating, thought provoking narrative with action that grows organically out of the story...well, just pull out your dvd of the first movie.

in other words, take the Bay comment as a backhanded compliment.
FWIW, the action here is much more impressive than anything ever seen in one of his cra...er...films

an the point of the thread is just to say, that if people are disappointed in the movie (and i really don't think the majority will be), it won't be a disappointment in the way EP 1 was.
i don't think the W bros. are alienating one audience by pandering to another, in other words.

mdc3000
05-13-03, 12:20 PM
Originally posted by ckolchak


if you are the kind of person craving a stimulating, thought provoking narrative with action that grows organically out of the story...well, just pull out your dvd of the first movie.

in .

I am dying to see Reloaded...but I think people's disappointment with Star Wars Episode 1 was that it didn't capture the spirit of the originals...it changed the formula a bit (dumbing it down) and the audience didn't like that... they wanted something as magical as the first trilogy...

which is why, based on reviews I've read, I think the EP1 to Matrix Reloaded comparison will hold up.... The reason the first Matrix was such a cult hit was because of the mix of Action and Intelligence... it was not only the eye candy, but the ideas the movie posed. People finally had an action movie that had thoughts in it's head... the mix of intellect and action was pretty magical, coming together beautifully... and from what I've heard of Reloaded...this doesn't happen again...which means it doesn't have the same spirit of the first one... ie. EP1 syndrome...

If we wanted The Matrix to be just another Michael Bay type movie, then I'd have no problem with your observation...I love dumb popcorn flicks...but the Matrix was more than that, so the fact that now it may be nothing more than a dumb popcorn flick is extremely disappointing..

I'm still hoping I'll love the HELL out of Reloaded...but my expectations have been significantly lowered...

MATT

PixyJunket
05-13-03, 12:30 PM
I knew it..

Still expecting a lot of fun though.

Scot1458
05-13-03, 12:41 PM
trust me.
if you like Michael Bay movies, you'll LOVE TMR. it is the ULTIMATE 'pause your rationale reasoning and just enjoy' popcorn flick in many a moon...IF EVER


LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

great, it sucks.

caiman
05-13-03, 12:41 PM
I think too many people are expecting the movie to completely recapture the mystery and intrigue of the first. This is, of course, impossible because the mystery surrounding the matrix has been uncovered. A major part of the appeal of the first one was the feeling of "what the hell is going on here?". I just don't see why anyone would expect the same from Reloaded. Instead, people need to go into the movie realizing that it is a continuation of the story. Part 1 set up the rules of the matrix, part 2 will explore them. Just as the last act of part 1 was pure action, Reloaded will continue in a similar manner. When I first heard about an upcoming sequel to The Matrix, the first thought on my mind was "awesome, now we can really see the kick ass **** that these guys can do in the matrix." In other words, I feel that a more action-oriented sequel is 100% appropriate considering what has already been explained in the first movie. We know what we need to know, now let's see these guys go to work. I can't wait.

huh?
05-13-03, 01:03 PM
Originally posted by caiman
I think too many people are expecting the movie to completely recapture the mystery and intrigue of the first. This is, of course, impossible because the mystery surrounding the matrix has been uncovered. A major part of the appeal of the first one was the feeling of "what the hell is going on here?". I just don't see why anyone would expect the same from Reloaded. Instead, people need to go into the movie realizing that it is a continuation of the story. Part 1 set up the rules of the matrix, part 2 will explore them. Just as the last act of part 1 was pure action, Reloaded will continue in a similar manner. When I first heard about an upcoming sequel to The Matrix, the first thought on my mind was "awesome, now we can really see the kick ass **** that these guys can do in the matrix." In other words, I feel that a more action-oriented sequel is 100% appropriate considering what has already been explained in the first movie. We know what we need to know, now let's see these guys go to work. I can't wait.

i agree somewhat. however, part of the chram of the first one for me was the story as well. what i want out of the second one (in addition to the kick ass action that i believe the first one led up to), is an explination of zion, some background of the new characters and their importance to the overall story of neo's quest to free the humans, etc... i think it will deliver... i'm prety stocked for the new installment.

caiman
05-13-03, 01:13 PM
Originally posted by huh?
i agree somewhat. however, part of the chram of the first one for me was the story as well. what i want out of the second one (in addition to the kick ass action that i believe the first one led up to), is an explination of zion, some background of the new characters and their importance to the overall story of neo's quest to free the humans, etc... i think it will deliver... i'm prety stocked for the new installment.

Yeah I agree with all this. I wasn't meaning to imply that I expect no story. Just that it will be the action that is the central focus this time more than the story. Yeah, I definately want to learn more about the workings of the matrix, more about the characters (the new ones and the returning ones), and of course more about Zion. If the movie was pure action and no plot whatsoever, we would be back to the Michael Bay comparison, but I really don't think this will be the case.

trigun
05-13-03, 01:26 PM
What about all the reviews that say the Zion scenes are tedious and laughably bad at times? If they didn't make them great, what was the point?

Terrell
05-13-03, 02:41 PM
TMR is nothing like this.

Well, I've read many of the reviews, and even the positive reviews are mostly mixed. But they all point to the same things. The Zion stuff if bad. Some of the acting is pretty bland and stiff ina lot of places. I saw the clip of Morpheus' speech in Zion, and it was cheesy as hell, and his delivery was stiff. The action while cool, is often repetitive. The long philisophical ramblings are a convoluted mess. Also, many of the reviews seem to be in agreement that the first hour is so boring and drags to a halt, that you could walk into the film an hour in and you'd miss nothing.

We'll see if they're right. I normally don't give credit to Harry Knowles and his reviews, but Quint backed him up in his reviews as well. If half of what he says is true, then I have a feeling I'm not going to be pleased.

But I'll be there on Friday, and I'm going in with an open mind. But I don't like what I'm hearing.

What about all the reviews that say the Zion scenes are tedious and laughably bad at times? If they didn't make them great, what was the point?

I've read the same thing in at least 7 reviews. Heck, iv'e read that in the burly brawl that:

Neo just flys away and leaves the Agent Smiths just standing there. The whole scene was pointless and did nothing for any of the characters

If that's the case, why didn't he just do that in the first place. I hope they're wrong about this film. I rarely let reviews tempt me on a film, but I've never been a huge Matrix fan. I'm going regardless.

Oh well........

Dr. DVD
05-13-03, 02:49 PM
I like Michael Bay movies as long as he doesn't try to do anything that should be treated seriously in popcorn style, like Pearl Harbor.

That said, I am really lowering my expectations for TMR in the thought provoking department.

ckolchak
05-13-03, 03:39 PM
i apologize for not being clearer.

i wasn't equating TMR with a Bay flick because i thought TMR was 'brain-dead'.
i was equating the two because after i watch a Bay film, if i try to think about the 'story' it actually hurts my head-
and at some point, or several points,
an involuntary groan will escape.
you'll see after tomorrow.

just revel in the action and eye-candy- when all is said and done, you will look back fondly on that part of it

TCG
05-13-03, 03:53 PM
Originally posted by mdc3000
I am dying to see Reloaded...but I think people's disappointment with Star Wars Episode 1 was that it didn't capture the spirit of the originals...it changed the formula a bit (dumbing it down) and the audience didn't like that... they wanted something as magical as the first trilogy...

which is why, based on reviews I've read, I think the EP1 to Matrix Reloaded comparison will hold up.... The reason the first Matrix was such a cult hit was because of the mix of Action and Intelligence... it was not only the eye candy, but the ideas the movie posed. People finally had an action movie that had thoughts in it's head... the mix of intellect and action was pretty magical, coming together beautifully... and from what I've heard of Reloaded...this doesn't happen again...which means it doesn't have the same spirit of the first one... ie. EP1 syndrome...

If we wanted The Matrix to be just another Michael Bay type movie, then I'd have no problem with your observation...I love dumb popcorn flicks...but the Matrix was more than that, so the fact that now it may be nothing more than a dumb popcorn flick is extremely disappointing..

I'm still hoping I'll love the HELL out of Reloaded...but my expectations have been significantly lowered...

MATT
Unfortunately, I feel the same way.

Michael T Hudson
05-13-03, 03:58 PM
It still amazes me people say that Episode 1 failed. It is the third highest grossing picture ever made.

Kal-El
05-13-03, 04:11 PM
Originally posted by BigDaddy
It still amazes me people say that Episode 1 failed. It is the third highest grossing picture ever made.

*Insert obligatory "B.O. numbers do not make a good/successful movie" post* here. :D

Dr. DVD
05-13-03, 07:21 PM
Episode I didn't fail financially, and neither did II, for that matter. It was on other levels, like story and depth, that they failed.

Moogz
05-13-03, 11:37 PM
I'm planning on eating lots of brownies before I go. Hopefully, that will make whatever memories I have of the premiere showing good memories. Or fragments of memories.

GeoffK
05-14-03, 01:25 AM
I can understand why people would like Matrix Reloaded with EP I. Both films have to live up to gargantuan expectations, arguably niether film could possiably live up to the expectations.

This being said (and I've only seen Matrix Reloaded once) I'd imagine people who are disapointed that Reloaded is not the film to end all films, who may also have been disapointed at EP 1 might enjoy the film more a second time around knowing that it is what it is.

jarofclay73
05-14-03, 01:54 AM
Originally posted by ckolchak
trust me. if you like Michael Bay movies, you'll LOVE TMR.

So, Michael Bay is the standard to which audiences will like or dislike TMR?

I really hope it's not THAT bad...

ckolchak
05-14-03, 05:37 AM
i expalined above in what fashion i was invoking the name of Bay.
when the fan (boys) tear themselves away from their PS2s to run back and see this, i don't think they will be going (back a second time) to hear the turgid dialectics, or banal zen bon-mots, or bask in the sci-fi channel asthetic of Zion.
like a Bay film, regardless of the film-makers higher minded pretensions, the only reason your a$$ will stay in the seat is for the visercal, mindless thrill of the wow.

i just don't see people being inspired to fetishize the free will/choice discourse of this film, the way they did the nature of reality from the first.



but hell, what do i know.

Ebert just gave it a glowing review.
So you kids can rest a little easier.
According to him, The Matrix Reloaded and Daredevil are the best genre films released so far this year.

Dr. DVD
05-14-03, 09:45 AM
Originally posted by ckolchak
Ebert just gave it a glowing review.
So you kids can rest a little easier.
According to him, The Matrix Reloaded and Daredevil are the best genre films released so far this year.


I thought Daredevil was crap for the most part. :(

LivingINClip
05-14-03, 11:04 PM
As did I. I have noticed a lot of negative reviews and mixed reviews on what was suppose to be a sure-fire great sequel. Personally, I thought the trailer was more than impressive - but now I hear about CG issues and a brain-dead story and it is somewhat worrisome...With that said, I'll have to wait until Sunday or Monday to finally get to see Reloaded.
:(

Kal-El
05-15-03, 04:05 AM
Actually, after seeing the movie. I think the comparisons have a point somewhat especially re:

- the hype behind it
- CGI overload

Keyser Soze
05-15-03, 04:29 AM
Just seen Reloaded tonight... I loved it. As far as the this movie next to Episode 1:

The Wachowski's wipe their asses with what luca$ calls a script.

This movie works on many levels, that's something missing from the Ep1 and 2. These Matrix movies are delivering... plain and simple. That's something Ep 1 and 2 forgot to do. luca$ had his day, unfortunately it was back in 77' and the early 80s.

I will go put my $$$ down to see this movie again, yes it was that good (and I want to disect it a little more).

That's enough typing for the moment... I have to get back to my ps2 now.

I can't wait to see "The Matrix: Revolutions".

Michael Corvin
05-15-03, 09:48 AM
I agree with the Ep. 1 comparisons. Not living up to the hype. It was good, just not great. But that may change with multiple viewings. It took 2 viewings to totally appreciate the first one. Maybe that holds true this time as well.

Kal-El
05-15-03, 01:20 PM
Hehe. Let's try to make a list shall we? (Disclaimer: This is all in good fun so please don't take it seriously)

- hyped to death yet underwhelming (for some)
- CGI overload
- Twins=Darth Maul
- Neo exhibits "Force" abilities

Anybody else have anything? ;)

PixyJunket
05-15-03, 02:13 PM
Originally posted by Keyser Soze
The Wachowski's wipe their asses with what luca$ calls a script.
I agree.. they wiped thier asses with a script and proceeded to put THAT to the big screen. The dialouge in Reloaded was a bunch of jibber jabber strung together to try and impress comic books kids.

TCG
05-15-03, 03:15 PM
Originally posted by pixyboi
The dialouge in Reloaded was a bunch of jibber jabber strung together to try and impress comic books kids.
Comic book kids? Yet it was rated R. Odd.

ckolchak
05-15-03, 03:19 PM
for all its intricate little puzzles, self concious references, and more liberal sex & violence (which actually seemed kinda tame in retrospect) its, at heart, just a big dumb HK/comic book movie.

Matrix nerds will have a hard time grasping this, and they'll pull out references to ancient Christian sects, numeroligical references, eastern philosophical references, and of course, tons and tons of computer-geek references ....but as i was watching the story repeatedly pause for another inane, inconclusive bout of wire-fu, i realized that yes, this is just another big dumb comic book movie.

Kal-El
05-15-03, 03:33 PM
Has anyone else who's seen this also read "The Da Vinci Code" by Dan Brown or is a Holy Grail enthusiast/historian?

I wonder if the Bros. Wachowski came up with the name "Merovingian" in relation to the whole history behind the Holy Grail or if they just thought it sounded "cool"...

cactusoly
05-15-03, 06:34 PM
I was very mixed about Matrix Reloaded.

It was a bunch of really cool scenes with a whole lot of nothing in between. After 4 years the wow factor is gone. I wish that they didn't use slow motion every time a car flipped or a person was tossed.