When did Arnold Schwarzenegger's career "Jump the Shark?"

[Rocky_Stallone]

It's the same thing with the Sylvester Stallone "Jump the Shark" one, what film (in your opinion) sent Arnold Schwarzenegger's career downhill?

Off this poll, I actually think his career started going down when "End of Days" came out. That movie wasn't very successful. I really enjoyed that movie a lot but it wasn't a big hit.

"The 6th Day" didn't do great either since it wasn't playing in that many theaters, it wasn't a nationwide release.

"Collateral Damage" almost sent his career down the drain, that probably was his worst movie. I pretty much enjoy all Arnold movies but I was dissapointed by this one.

I am going to see "T-3" when it comes out, so hopefully it's going to be good.

"End of Days" gets my vote on this poll.

[REL77]

I got to vote for Junior. That had to be the worst movie ever made. Come on, Arnold had this big tough image, andthen bammmmm.... Pregrant Arnold??? C'mon

[goLUCKY]

Last Action hero.....sucked bad

[Jackskeleton]

Two words:

Planet Hollywood

[Groucho]

All of these movies made well over One Million Dollars. Wow! That's a lot of money. I'm no expert on show business, but that qualifies them all as Box Office Bonanzas.

[Rocky_Stallone]

One Million Dollars is sure a lot of money for people who aren't film makers like us message board losers. :lol:

[Brain Stew]

I'm going to have to say sometime after "Jingle All The Way", it was his last movie I enjoyed. I think the reason his career is floundering is because of the action movie fallout. I can remember a time when action movies were huge and made tons of money no matter how bad they were, and now, action movies are as hackneyed and trite as soap operas.

[The Nature Boy]

The jump of Arnold has nothing to do with the quality of his films. I mean, is Collaterial Damage that much worse than Commando? Or End of Days worse than Predator, inherently? The way I see it, his career peaked the day before the Last Action Hero opened. Arnold was invincible on screen and off, and remember the legitimate discussion as who would rule summer, Arnold or the T-Rexes of Jurassic Park? I was as suprised as when Buster Douglas knocked out Tyson that Arnold was so soundly thrashed. Not surpising given the schmaltzy B.S. that was Last Action Hero(though it's grown on me in recent years).

The only thing preventing this as the cementable, certifiable JTS moment is the success of True Lies. A favorite with fans, and a money maker, it did look for a moment like "Last Action Hero" was a hiccup and not a freefall. But after that, he's never been the same.

I don't think it's always fair to judge on box office recepits, but we can't really judge on performance, and since he's not writing or directing these, and he's an iconclastic star, the gate is like the popular vote of his fans. Eraser whispered across the 100 million mark, and Batman and Robin probably only made the money it did because of Arnold, but both were far from classics. I do think Collaterial Damage was a decent enough movie, but how could that be expected to do anything after 9/11.

At the end of the day, The Last Action Hero is where Arnold ceased to be bulletproof, and capped the best box office run since Burt Reynolds 1976-81. And no one has ever emerged to fill Stallone's and Arnold's shoes.

I just wish these guys would put a treatment I wrote back in the 6th grade to use, and finally get together and give the people the one thing they'd want to see out of them, the two togetether. Two rogue generals in World War II, who team up to squash Mussolini and Hitler. Ok, I was in 6th grade, and the thing reads like a Homer Simpson script now, but there is your premise. There's gold in them hills!!!

[Rocky_Stallone]

Originally posted by Brain Stew
I can remember a time when action movies were huge and made tons of money no matter how bad they were, and now, action movies are as hackneyed and trite as soap operas.

True to that, very good point.

Even though action movies may have really bad plotting and scripts, all "action" movies are for is just for good mindless fun, nothing more. That's what we all watch action movies for, we want to see bad ass action heroes kicking the bad guys asses, and that's why I love "action" movies so much. :)

[Tscott]

True Lies

[Tuan Jim]

I liked Sixth Day a lot but if I hadn't seen an ad for it in the paper a day or two before it opened, I would seriously have not known that there was another Schwartzeneggar action flick coming out -- zero marketing IMO.

[jaeufraser]

Well I think his last good movie was True Lies. After that, things started to fall apart. Granted his next few films did ok, Eraser, Jingle all the Way, but the tarnish from those movies not being well received led to the downfall. Batman and Robin being terrible and End of Days not doing so hot really ended his run as a top star. The poor showing of the Sixth Day (which was released nationwide...not sure why you would think it wasn't 2516 screens isn't a MEGA release, but it's stil quite wide). So after that his star wasn't that big. Collarteral Damage was a February release...sure it was bumped cause of 9-11 but still. He still has a chance to rebound though.

[Geofferson]

Toss-up between Jingle All the Way and Junior.

[Ginwen]

Combination of The Last Action Hero, and the decreasing popularity of action movies in general.

[DRG]

My initial thought is Junior... but I also could make a point for Jingle All the Way.

Last Action Hero was a disappointment, but when all was said and done, people still thought of Arnold as a star. Then True Lies came and brought back his luster (and box office... it's his second highest grosser behind T2).

But Arnie never has been a great comic actor. Going back a bit, Twins had the novelty of "Arnie in a comedy", plus it at least had SOME action. And Kindergarden Cop wisely had an action movie backbone to hang it's comedy plot on. Then Junior came along... this is a movie that's entire point of existence is a sight gag. The idea is corny, but it COULD have worked. Arnie simply didn't have the comedic chops to pull it off. He simply DID NOT look like a star here. Honestly, imagine Jim Carrey in this role, and a few rewrites... it might have actually been funny.

He returned to action with Eraser. It did cross the $100 mil mark, but it just didn't seem special. Arnie had already lost his specialness. And Jingle All the Way wasn't horrible movie, but it was a bad career move. He really should've laid off the comedies for awhile.

[Deftones]

Originally posted by Tscott
True Lies

No frickin way! That's one of his best flicks by far! I'd say anything after about 1996 that he did was crap.

[jaeufraser]

While I definately won't imply I enjoyed or thought Jingle All the Way was anything but bad, I wouldn't really point to that movie as one that hurt him. It was outside his normal realm of movies (action) and actually did decently, turning a profit in the long run. Honestly it's his bad action movies that killed him. Even though Batman and Robin did make 110 million, that movie and End of Days did more to kill his career than anything else. Batman and Robin was just...horrible. Nobody liked it and it was seen as a HUGE flop. Sure those numbers would've looked good on another movie, but for a Batman movie with Awnold, it was considered a major bomb, not to mention the fact it was so widely despised. After that he hasn't had a movie open over 20 million dollars. Mediocre openings, not big grosses. Though his career is far from the dumps that Stallone is in, if T3 bombs I'm pretty sure that Arnold is over. Granted unless T3 is terrible, it will make 100 mil plus pretty much no problem. But to get his career back on track 150 mil plus is needed. Otherwise he'll just be a has been.<br>
And to the person who asked is there really a difference between his old movies and his new ones...YES! There is!!! Ok, well Commando isn't fine cinema, but it wasn't the mega budget like Sixth Day or End of Days. But Predator, Total Recall, the Terminator movies, True Lies, I'd say those are pretty good movies. Good pacing, good action, even good directing. So is there a difference? Yes, while the focus is on action and whatnot, there is no denying that those movies are actually good movies. You should be able to tell the difference. Commando is a guilty pleasure...but no it's not that good. But it's FUN. Sixth Day? i thought it was dull. Collateral Damage? Where's the action? Not all his old movies were great either. Raw Deal I think might be his worst movie of all, and that was in his heyday. God I hate that movie, though it is quite funny. Just a thought.

[fumanstan]

I'm going to say never jumped, only because i still find many of his more recent flicks very enjoyable. I had a good time with 6th Day, and i felt End Of Days was a decent flick. Haven't had the chance to watch Collateral Damage though. I've never seen Junior for that matter either.

But in just about every movie i've seen with Arnold i always have fun. Whether its Conan, Terminator, Kindergarten Cop (guilty pleasure), Twins (another), True Lies, Last Action Hero... they may not all be masterpieces or anything like that but i have a lot of fun. I've always thought of him as an entertaining personality, and for me that translates on and off the film.

[chowderhead]

Last Action hero.
I agree with nature boy. That movie made him look less bankable and it has been a downward slide ever since.
Bye Bye arwnud.

[Face/Off]

I would have to say Jingle All The Way... if that came out after Eraser, which I didn't like but it did make a mint.

They heyday of the Sly, Arnie, Seagal, Van Damme action flick changed when dramatic actors started jumping into these hero roles like Nicolas Cage.

[Rocky_Stallone]

As I said, I pretty much enjoy all of Arnold's movies but the only two he did I didn't like were "Collateral Damage" and "Junior".

[matome]

Eraser was his last half-decent flick.

[elias]

Easily Eraser. Prior to that was Junior, which was funny, and True Lies, which was really good.

Eraser was unnecessary.
Jingle All the Way? C'mon.
Batman & Robin speaks for itself.
End of Days & 6th Day - ugh.
Collateral Damage was sorry.
T3? Who knows but it looks like more of the same of T2 but maybe it will surprise us.

[Daniel I]

I love my Awnold movies but everything since Last Action Hero was yechhhhh.

The True Awnold will arise when KING CONAN comes to a theater near you! Milius + Watchanameit bros + Awnold + Sean Connery!

Crom!

- Daniel I

[chanster]

I agree with Eraser. It is probably a template for all his recent movie problems. Basically a lame plot with stupid special effects and a director who doesn't know how to use Arnold.

End of Days was marked as Arnold's comeback movie, so that isn't the jump the shark moment.

Last Action Hero was Schwarzenneger at his zenith - he was invincible..but the movie was kinda bad and proved he was mortal.

Anyway, as someone mentioned before - Predator, Terminator, and Arnold's mid 80's to early 90's were good movies, well paced, suspenseful, and were great vehicles for Arnold. And Commando is a hell of a lot of fun.

[Simpson Purist]

Junior was digusting, definitely a shark-jumper.

[Dubya]

Last Action Hero was not the moment he jumped the shark because one year later he came back with True Lies. Eraser was the last watchable movie he made. Batman and Robin gets my vote because it was all down hill from there. T3 will probably have a pretty good opening weekend but will fall quickly. I would be surprised if it made more than $130 million.

[mookyman]

I'd have to go with Batman and Robin. Okay, Last Action Hero is overall pretty bad, but it has its rare moments. If anything, that one was McTiernan's shark jumping.

[Parcher]

Am I the only one who loved End of Days?

[bhk]

Batman & Robin. That movie has tainted the career of many.

[javanut]

I think it's funny how's Arnie's almost completely cut out of the new T3 trailers, even though he had so many lines in the first one that came out.

One career that's definitely on the slide.

[C.H.U.D.]

I think it's pretty obvious that the break he took from films to recover from heart surgery hurt his career. He lost a lot of his audience, and has never got it back. His "comeback" film End of Days received a lukewarm response, same with every film since. Maybe T3 will pump up his career for one final run.

[Face/Off]

When I was watching Eraser, all I could think about was Mission: Impossible (which came out the same summer).

Government agent betrayed by his own boss and framed for a co-worker's murder, has to break into a computer room to find evidence to clear his name.

[joeydaninja]

with Terminator 2, actually. Once action movie acters, or acters in general hit the 20 million dollar mark, their movies tend to corrupt magnificently. look at sandler and carrey. the studio's probably get so tense with their expensive acter, that they seize up and go formula all the way after that. sad.

but like the others said, it clearly jumped the shark with Eraser. Eraser was like pieces of Arnold movies you saw before put together again. so why bother making another one in the first place. Arnold is a versatile action acter, which doesn't mean he's the greatest acter in the world, but he is good at what he does. so why give him the same chop-chop script again, when he is capable of doing more action stuff that we've never seen before.

Eraser was was the beginning of the real hack work, imo.

I have a feeling also that Arnold probably gets too involved with his scripts nowadays, that he is almost the producer himself, just like he was in Last Action Hero. Which isn't a good thing. One should realize the limitations of one's talents. His comedy being another obvious limitation that he doesn't realize.

But no matter what, I still love the big oak. And am still hoping for more great stuff in the future, even though he seems a bit lost now.

Robert Rodriguez once said in an interview that he would love to direct Arnold as he really is. I hope that happens.

[UAIOE]

Post-Eraser "End of Days" was kinda ehh....and 6th Day left me wanting to see "Total Recall"

Eraser was (to me) just like Arine's earlier 80's B-movies but in this case there was some better FX.

I think its a better movie than "Commando" but Commando is so cheesy its great.

This reminds me.... i really need to see "Running man" again.

[Red Dog]

I think of Jump the Shark as the peak point - so Arnold peaked in T2. True Lies was great and I even enjoyed his role in Eraser. Everything after that stunk.

[ToddSm66]

I would say his last good movie was Eraser. He had a few stinkers before that, but not nearly as consistantly as he does now.

[PixyJunket]

Last Action Hero.

[DRG]

The other thing about Last Action Hero is that it had the misfortune of opening a week after Jurassic Park. Ouch. I agree with the comemnts about Eraser's lameness... it was the first of his action films since becoming a mega-star that just wasn't any fun. Not bad, but generic and by-the-numbers. Batman and Robin was just bad either way. I could buy Arnie as a villain, but not the cartoony Mr. Freeze. I actually think he'd make a cool 007 villain.
As for his later stuff, End of Days and Collateral Damage continued the no-fun action style. 6th Day actually had some fun stuff, but the ads made everyone think it was a Total Recall rehash.

[Rocky_Stallone]

"Last Action Hero" is one of my favorites of Arnolds, I remember seeing that film in the drive-in theater when it was first released.

[davidlynchfan]

Originally posted by Daniel I
I love my Awnold movies but everything since Last Action Hero was yechhhhh.

Crom!

- Daniel I

Even True Lies?,that maybe my top Arnie flick!

[Rocky_Stallone]

I don't know why everyone hates "Last Action Hero" so much.

It had such a fun story and good action.

[johnbook]

True Lies since then i've only enjoyed two Arnold movies,

Jingle all the way

Batman & Robin

[UAIOE]

Originally posted by Rocky_Stallone
I don't know why everyone hates "Last Action Hero" so much.

It had such a fun story and good action.


I like the movie. I loved the self-parody Arnie had going.

However i think things kinda turned into typical movie stuff once they got to the "real" world. (falling off the movie theater rooftop)

But everything "in the movie" was pure gold.

[DJ_Spyder]

Originally posted by Simpson Purist
Junior was digusting, definitely a shark-jumper.

The Horror the Horror I totally agree with this I just can't get over the fact of watching Arnie get pregnant and since then his career went downhill after that. I wonder if they are going to run a thread on Terry Bollea's aka Hulk Hogan's career I still think that Mr. Nanny totally jumped the shark on his career.

[UAIOE]

Its not like the Hulkster starred in many a great movie.

There was the one where he was a wrestler (!!) and i think that was his only decent film (forgot the name, to lazy to look up)

However...on the subject of jumping the shark "Ernest Saves Christmas" truely was the apex of the Ernest movies....after that it was all down hill.

[Moppy007]

IMO, Junior started his career downturn... and Batman & Robin killed it...

[TCG]

Hasn't been in a good film since True Lies

[VashTheStampede]

You can say alot of things about Arnold's movies, but...in general...not ALL the time, but in general....they entertain. I wouldn't say his career really jumped the shark....he's made some bad movies throughout his career, but he's also made some very very enjoyable ones for me.

I am not sure why End of Days got such a bad wrap! I thought it was very enjoyable. Sixth Day was okay and Collateral Damage was okay. Total Recall, Predator, Terminator, T2....my favorites.

As far as Jingle All The Way, Junior, Batman & Robin.....well...... they just sucked.

I've always liked Arnold and his movies....so I am not gonna say when he jumped until I see T3. :)

VTS

[the aftermath]

It was definitely right after Eraser. As far as I'm concerned Last Action Hero doesn't exist. That's what my therapist told me after I saw it (it really scarred me for life :() True Lies was his last really good movie.

[Saxofonix]

where's Twins on the list of movies ??

It's between Twins and Junior for my vote as to where his career started wobbling.

[jaeufraser]

Originally posted by Saxofonix
where's Twins on the list of movies ??

It's between Twins and Junior for my vote as to where his career started wobbling.

Twins? Maybe you didn't like that movie, but after it was released it became his biggest hit of his career (at the time), grossing over 100 million in 1988. After that movie, his career entered it's greatest period where Total Recall and T2 and Kindergarten Cop all came out within a year and a half period. So, perhaps Twins is not to your liking, but it was if anything a shining moment in his career.<br>

Though I really don't think his comedies are what killed him. It's the fact his action movies have been lackluster.

[joliom]

Junior - He hasn't made a decent movie since. I think the whole downward spiral might have actually started with Kindergarten Cop which seemed to be where he started to embrace all the stupid kiddie movie crap. I'll give him Twins as a throw away, but Kindergarten Cop and then its latter counterpart, Last Action Hero, were totally inexcusable.

[Saxofonix]

Originally posted by jaeufraser
Twins? ... After that movie, his career entered it's greatest period where Total Recall and T2 and Kindergarten Cop all came out within a year and a half period.

You're right. Because Twins came out around the time where his career peaked, it wouldn't define Twins as the moment where he career started nose-diving. It's still a crap movie though.

[ipkevin]

Originally posted by The Nature Boy
The jump of Arnold has nothing to do with the quality of his films. I mean, is Collaterial Damage that much worse than Commando? Or End of Days worse than Predator, inherently?

HELL YES. Predator is a near perfect action thriller. A masterwork of suspense direction, efficient storytelling and characterization. The score is a classic and the camerawork in the film was about 10 years ahead of its time.

End of Days failed to satisfy even on an action film level and for some odd reason Arnold's acting has gotten much worse since his films started bombing. There's a self-consciousness and awkwardness in the delivery that he didn't have in Predator or what not.

But anyway, Arnold's problem is simple: His films do not promise a great, action-packed time anymore. Action-packed being the key term there. You can no longer go to an Arnie action film and be confident that you will get a ton of great action. The action fans are still out there, they just don't blindly trust him anymore. No one wants to see Arnie emote like an everyman. Especially if there isn't any good action to back it up. It's suspected that he tried to change to a more gentle screen persona as prep for a political career.

[joeydaninja]

Twins may have signified the ending, but Total Recall was made after that, which like some said, may agruably be his greatest. Even Kindergarten Cop was okay. It was at Terminator 2 when he peaked, he was paid 20 million dollars, and ever since has gotten careful. He got too swell-headed, and produced and micro-managed The Last Action Hero. True Lies was still okay, action wise, but his comedy is kind of stale. Then he made Eraser, and it was all downhill from there.

I remember watching Jingle All The Way, with some significant others, and was quite surprised with how horrible that movie was.

Batman and Robin, in spite of all the criticism in this board, was kind of okay, but his part was too small.

End of Days was a Satan movie wanabee.

The 6th Day was not good.

And Collateral Damage, was a drama. What did Arnie think he was doing here? and come on! the girl should've died in that explosion!

Arnold's career may be gone, at least from an action fan's perspective, but it may still be revived.

[joliom]

Great/Very good:

• Conan the Barbarian (1982)
• Conan the Destroyer (1984)
• The Terminator (1984)
• Predator (1987)
• The Running Man (1987)
• Total Recall (1990)
• T2 (1991)
• True Lies (1994)

Good/Decent:

• Stay Hungry (1976)
• Pumping Iron (1977)
• Red Sonja (1985)
• Commando (1985)

Tolerable:

• Raw Deal (1986)
• Red Heat (1988)
• Twins (1988)
• Eraser (1996)
• The 6th Day (2000)

God Aweful:

• Hercules in New York (1970)
• Kindergarten Cop (1990)
• Last Action Hero (1993)
• Junior (1994)
• Jingle All the Way (1996)
• Batman & Robin (1997)
• End of Days (1999)
• Dr. Dolittle 2 (2001)
• Collateral Damage (2002)

Have Not Seen:

• The Villain (1979)
• Scavenger Hunt (1979)
• The Jayne Mansfield Story (1980)

Interesting to note that his bombs are beginning to outnumber his good films, even by the most generous accounts. Soon he'll be in Stalone territory...then Burt Reynolds...then finally Hulk Hogan.

[joeydaninja]

and then Shaquille O'Neal?

[UAIOE]

Originally posted by joeydaninja
and then Shaquille O'Neal?


Shaq is on his own.


Nobody else can match that crap.

[joliom]

Originally posted by joeydaninja
and then Shaquille O'Neal?

He can never get to Shaq territory since no matter what, he has made some good films. The pinnacle of Shaq's Hollywood career might have been his cameo in Freddy Got Fingered...need I say more?

[necros]

I'd have to say Jingle all the way .. but I think i hated it more because of the annoying soon to be anikin kid in it. I tought Eraser was pretty good.. like someone else said, the newer action movies aren't any better or worse than the old ones, it's just their not as popular anymore. I thought 6th day had some good points too, in fact I was really into it up until the part where
the twin arnolds started playing with each other
but I didn't see Colateral Damage yet. I did like End of Days too.. not enough to buy but enough to watch it on cable. I'd blame the action heros downward spirals more on the genre's popularity more than anything else...

[joliom]

Here's a question: What was Arnie's lowest point in terms of specific scene (the moment that made you most cringe)? Personally, I can't decide which was worst: Arnie in the Turboman costume yelling "Jaime!" non-stop, Arnie pregnant and emotional, or Arnie at generally any point during Batman & Robin.

[UAIOE]

Arnie pregnant...

worst idea ever!

Arnie as Turboman i can let slide as its a x-mas kids movie

Batman & Robin....well he wasnt pregnant in that! (or wasnt showing ;) )

[Trigger]

Most of those movies kinda suck - which one came out first? That would probably be the one.

[joeydaninja]

"she'll be back" is actually starting to make me cringe.