Now when I get to his house (a small terraced house with a TV room about 6x4 yards) to set the stuff up he's already placed the speakers and stuff where he wants them on speaker stands. First thing I notice and what really bugs me is that he's placed his TV in the corner. So the only place he can sit to even get close to the sweet spot is in the middle of the room on the floor, and even then you can't place the speakers equidistant from the TV. Second of all, when you sit down on the couch, the rear speakers are about a foot away from your ears. If anyones ever seen or heard the LA500 speakers, there's not much point to them unless you have them up loud, so you need a large room for that. Also, the speakers were up on floorstands, with the floor being wooden. And when I say wooden, I mean uneven planks that cause the speaker stands to wobble when you touch them. And finally, the only DVD he had to test with it was Harry Potter!!
It's a shame when you have people with money to burn but so little intelligence that they can't set up their HT properly. :(
Brian Shannon
03-11-03, 08:05 AM
It's a shame when you have people with money to burn but so little intelligence that they can't set up their HT properly.
Sometimes education has little to do with intelligence.
Sounds like he has never had to do this before.
audrey
03-11-03, 09:05 AM
It can be challenging to setup and properly place speakers for a 2 channel system; a 5.1 system exaggerates the difficulties, especially in an installation that doubles as a family room and/or where aesthetics are a concern. Many people are simply unaware of the factors involved in setting up a home theater. This lack of knowledge doesn’t make them stupid; just uninformed.
Compromises are almost always necessary in dual use installations. Take a look at the pictures posted here---most have their front speakers jammed up against the wall and/or too close to the display screen. Excluding designs intended for near wall placement, most speakers will provide flatter response and better imagining away from wall boundaries and other obstructions. Still, people push their speakers up against the wall or edge them up against the sides of the TV. Why? Assuming one knows better, it’s likely because the room or aesthetic considerations dictated the compromise.
You didn’t mention if you offered any advice to the customer or tried to work with him to identify alternate placements or discussed the pros & cons of various solutions. If so, well ultimately it’s his decision—he has to live with the consequences. If not, then perhaps you were a bit remiss in not taking the time to educate one of your customers and to help him achieve the best sound possible given the constraints he had to work within.
karnblack
03-11-03, 10:24 AM
Originally posted by fmian
Don't you hate people who have heaps of money to spend on their HT but don't have the brains to set it up properly?
It's a shame when you have people with money to burn but so little intelligence that they can't set up their HT properly. :(
Nope.
That's where you come in. They have enough money to pay YOU to help them design and set up their theater. You should use your hard earned knowledge to educate your customer about their setup. Then they will make an informed decision based upon your input. Plus you should bring your own test and setup software so it shouldn't matter what media they have.
fmian
03-11-03, 11:18 AM
Originally posted by Brian Shannon
Sometimes education has little to do with intelligence.
Sounds like he has never had to do this before.
Actually his previous system was a Sony DAVS800 Surround system, and he had a lower spec Sony Amp with one of the SAVE range surround speakers in his bedroom.
He sounded like he had researched quite a bit to find what he wanted since he said he had waited a long time to get his hands on this new gear.
Also, he had some sort of fixation on IXOS cables 'cuz they all get 5 stars in the reviews?!' so I'd say he was fairly read up on the subject, just not smart enough to logically realise the correct way to do simple things.
el_jer
03-11-03, 11:23 AM
A dollar spent on Sony is unintelligent in itself!
audrey
03-11-03, 12:10 PM
Originally posted by fmian
(snip) so I'd say he was fairly read up on the subject, just not smart enough to logically realise the correct way to do simple things.
I’m sorry, but your comment makes no sense. Setting up a HTS isn’t something one can logically discern by applying common sense, especially if one does not have a basic grasp of the principles underlying sound reproduction. I’m with karnblack; I think it was your responsibility to help educate the customer and to help him achieve the best possible sound. Further, I think most of these issues should have been discussed during the sales process, prior to installation.
Just because one has researched a purchase does not mean one will know how to set it up or how to use it---few reviews cover these topics. Even if this customer possessed a sub-80 IQ and could not understand the equipment manuals, I believe it was your responsibility to help this man.
CPA-ESQ.
03-11-03, 12:57 PM
Did you tell him that this was the improper setup?
I take it from you post - that he was set in his ways and wanted the speakers and TV where "he" put it.
If this is true - that even when you told him that his setup was not the optimal listening / viewing conditions and he STILL wanted the setup the way he had it.....
Then a "Fool and His Money are Soon Parted" and he can brag to his friends that he has .. such and such cables, and they got 5 stars from such and such review.... and has sony this and that....
We all know that even if you have some of the "best" equipment but the wrong setup or calibration... you are not getting out what you paid for. :p
fmian
03-11-03, 03:33 PM
Originally posted by audrey
I’m sorry, but your comment makes no sense...
If all you knew about guns was that they went BANG, would you throw one in a backyard fire?
Just like, if all you know about expensive speakers is that they make sounds and that sounds vibrate, would you put them on a wobbly floor?
I didn't tell him the setup was wrong because:
a) I was doing the install on my own time and wanted to get out of their as quick as possible.
b) He had drilled holes in his floors for the speaker cable already. I wasn't about to tell him to redo everything.
c) I didn't sell him the stuff and even if I had I doubt he would have explained the size and positioning of furniture in his room.
Don't get me wrong, I usually advise customers of the right kind of stuff to get if they start with the basics. Many a time I've made layouts on paper regarding speaker positioning, or diagrams on how to connect stuff up. If they want to know I'll tell them. If they think they already know and seem even the slightest bit fussy about me telling them otherwise, I'll leave them be.
I should have mentioned it in the original post properly, but he did get defensive about his IXOS cables when I tried to replace a damaged one with another brand. Silly considering it was only to send the sound from his TV to the Amp.
I think Audrey's tapped the main problem on the head. A lot of people (especially in the UK where every main room in a house has a fireplace where you would ideally put the TV) have to compromise with where to put their equipment and so the HT suffers.
karnblack
03-11-03, 05:08 PM
Originally posted by fmian
I think Audrey's tapped the main problem on the head. A lot of people (especially in the UK where every main room in a house has a fireplace where you would ideally put the TV) have to compromise with where to put their equipment and so the HT suffers.
I know very well about compromises. I'm installing a HT in my friend's dad's house and they're putting it in a less than ideal room. I'm trying to help him get the best sound and picture, but there are many compromises he has to make due to his wife. So, we're going to do the best we can within those constraints. At least he knows he doesn't have a clue when it comes to HT. I can't imagine having to deal with someone not open to suggestion.
Also it's sad that he already made holes in the floor, but if that's where he want's them then so be it.
Wolf Husky
03-12-03, 02:10 PM
Originally posted by karnblack
I know very well about compromises.
A few weeks ago, I essentially turned my 1-BD apartment into a studio with an attached home theatre.
I moved my bed and computer into the living room (where open kitchen is) and moved the theatre into the bedroom. I sealed up the windows in the bedroom so no light leaks in and installed the speakers the way they were meant to. Funny thing is, my girlfriend loves it. She was skeptical about sleeping in the main room, but loves having the theatre.
The bedroom is wider and longer than the living room is, so it helps a lot.
shrike
03-12-03, 11:34 PM
A friend of mine and her husband bought a new big screen tv, stereo system, and dvd player. I came over to check it out a couple of weeks later and they had all of the speakers from the 5.1 system crammed onto a little shelf just above the tv...before I could say anything he started saying he thought the whole "surround sound" thing was a huge rip-off that he didn't notice much difference. After I explained to him how to properly set up the speakers etc. he just threw up his hands and said "Bah! Too much work!". Sad really....
nekobus
03-13-03, 06:11 AM
Originally posted by fmian
...have heaps of money to spend on their HT but don't have the brains to set it up properly?
Nawh, some people just don't know any better. However, I do hate HT dealers who sell expensive gear and don't set it up properly in their showrooms. :down:
fmian
03-13-03, 07:24 AM
Originally posted by nekobus
Nawh, some people just don't know any better. However, I do hate HT dealers who sell expensive gear and don't set it up properly in their showrooms. :down:
It's not always the dealers fault. For example, we can't always have surround speakers placed around the room cause people might trip over the cables, and then other people wouldn't know what speakers come with what kit.
Also, some speakers we sell are only sold individually, and our idiotic head office only manages to get us in one of them for display.
CPA-ESQ.
03-13-03, 11:36 AM
Originally posted by shrike
A friend of mine and her husband bought a new big screen tv, stereo system, and dvd player. I came over to check it out a couple of weeks later and they had all of the speakers from the 5.1 system crammed onto a little shelf just above the tv...before I could say anything he started saying he thought the whole "surround sound" thing was a huge rip-off that he didn't notice much difference. After I explained to him how to properly set up the speakers etc. he just threw up his hands and said "Bah! Too much work!". Sad really....
:rotfl: Sounds like when "Home Theater In a Box" goes bad.
Love the J6P : ""Bah! Too much work!"
BMAG
03-13-03, 11:40 AM
Originally posted by Wolf Husky
...Funny thing is, my girlfriend loves it. She was skeptical about sleeping in the main room, but loves having the theatre...
MARRY HER!! She's a keeper.
Berkowitz
03-13-03, 01:07 PM
Wow! He spent about 3k(US) on that Sony Garbage??? Not a very good buy.
But I know what you mean. I have a friend that bought a Sony XBR big screen, a Yamaha receiver with speakers and a sun and DVD player. It was a package deal from 6th ave electronics. He also bought a bello rack. I went over there and was floored. The TV was not adjusted properly, all 5 speakers were next to the tv along with the sub. i asked him whats the point of having a 5.1 set up if they are all in the front. He said he had no room????? To tell you the truth I do not think it was even set on the receiver for DD. It was in Prologic only!!!!
fmian
03-13-03, 03:46 PM
Originally posted by Berkowitz
Wow! He spent about 3k(US) on that Sony Garbage??? Not a very good buy.
True, I certainly wouldn't spend that much money on Sony gear unless it was for a TV. And that's coming from a guy who works at a Sony centre.
Buy: