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View Full Version : Best Pal to NTSC conversion?


Rockybalboa
02-22-03, 07:58 PM
Hello, I am wondering which player has the best Pal to NTSC conversion, I am using an Apex 600 which is TERRIBLE, I am looking to replace it, I need it to at least have component video out, it does not have to be progressive, as I am using an external line doubler, also, if anyone knows this player JVC SA600, info on it would be greatly appreciated.

Trigger
02-22-03, 08:47 PM
http://ads.kleinman.com/images/top_search.gif

Trigger
02-22-03, 08:47 PM
anyway - only players with the mediamatics chip can do a proper conversion. Malata is popular. JVC also makes one.

Sartana
02-22-03, 11:37 PM
Cyberhome 500 - flawless PAL-to-NTSC conversion, component outs, optical audio out, progressive scan, unbelievably low price tag. Many people have found theirs for $50.

cultshock
02-22-03, 11:48 PM
I use a Lenoxx DVD-2003 that seems to do very nice PAL conversion (and all region/macrovision free via a "hidden" menu). Picked it up for about 115.00 CDN. Bad points: no component video out, not progressive scan, a little problematic with CDRs and its black levels aren't great.

fnordboy
02-23-03, 03:08 AM
Originally posted by Rockybalboa
Hello, I am wondering which player has the best Pal to NTSC conversion, I am using an Apex 600 which is TERRIBLE, I am looking to replace it, I need it to at least have component video out, it does not have to be progressive, as I am using an external line doubler, also, if anyone knows this player JVC SA600, info on it would be greatly appreciated.

Well I have the JVC SA602 (which I think the '2' just means it is the silver model, and not the black one IIRC), and I absolutely love it. Plays all my PAL discs perfectly, have had no problems with it at all so far.

Plays just about everything: DVD-Audio, DVD-R, VCD, SVCD, Jpeg, MP3, CD-R/RW. And I love the remote :) . And it is progressive. A bit pricier than other region free players but is worth it IMO.

I also have a CyberHome 500 and find that it also does perfect PAL conversion. Picture quality is really good also for a 70 dollar player. If you want to go the cheap route the Cyberhome is the pick IMO.

Hope that helped.

Rockybalboa
02-23-03, 07:33 AM
Where can I get this cyberhome 500? Does it have to be modded to region free, or does it come that way?

Rockybalboa
02-23-03, 08:04 AM
Thank you fnordboy and others, this player is strictly going to be for playback of region 2-4 pal discs only. Does this player have the chroma bug? I am talking about the cyberhome 500.
Thanks

mrwilson
02-23-03, 10:05 AM
I disagree about the Cyberhome. It looks no better than my Apexx A600. Go for a JVC or the Malata.

Josh Z
02-23-03, 10:23 AM
Originally posted by Sartana
Cyberhome 500 - flawless PAL-to-NTSC conversion, component outs, optical audio out, progressive scan, unbelievably low price tag. Many people have found theirs for $50.

Lasts about a month before crapping out.

Tony Block
02-23-03, 12:07 PM
Originally posted by Rockybalboa
Where can I get this cyberhome 500? Does it have to be modded to region free, or does it come that way?

I bought my Cyberhome 500 at Best Buy.

Here's the procedure to make the player region free:

1. Turn on your dvd player.
2. Open the tray.
3. Press the stop button on your remote.
4. Enter 1999 using the remote and a menu will pop up.
5. Select the region code using the remote (set it to ALL).
6. Confirm it, using enter.
7. Leave the menu using the return button on your remote.
8. Close the tray.


BTW, my player is going strong into its fourth month.

cheers, Tony Block

Sartana
02-23-03, 04:47 PM
Originally posted by Josh Z
Lasts about a month before crapping out.

Please. I've had mine for four months with no problems.

Originally posted by mrwilson
I disagree about the Cyberhome. It looks no better than my Apexx A600. Go for a JVC or the Malata.

Puuullleeeaze! If you don't see the difference between a Cyberhome and an Apex, then you need your eyes checked.

Rockybalboa, check the Cyberhome forum at nerd-out.com for more enlightened opinions on this player. There have been some chroma issues with sets over three years old, but this defect has been fixed. It's an amazing player for the price.

indycohiba
02-23-03, 05:04 PM
I have never had a problem with my Malata.

fnordboy
02-23-03, 05:37 PM
Originally posted by mrwilson
I disagree about the Cyberhome. It looks no better than my Apexx A600. Go for a JVC or the Malata.

I don't have an Apex so I can't comment on that, but I said that the Cyberhome has great picture for a 70 dollar player.

Of course the JVC is going to kick its ass in picture quality, you do get what you pay for.

fnordboy
02-23-03, 05:41 PM
Originally posted by Rockybalboa
Thank you fnordboy and others, this player is strictly going to be for playback of region 2-4 pal discs only. Does this player have the chroma bug? I am talking about the cyberhome 500.
Thanks

No problem Rocky. I personally have had no issues with my Cyberhome yet, but I also haven't used it a lot. I bought it for my girlfriend so she can enjoy my R2s and I bought it for my mother as well. She is using hers as her dedicated player and as far as I know no problems as of yet.

There are some upgrades for the Cyberhome already available, I know there was an issue with some VCDs and the first updgrade fixed that IIRC. I personally have done none of the upgrades on any of the players and so far so good. Be aware that I did here there were some issues playing some discs so keep that in mind when making your decision.

I would say if your willing to spend the cash get the JVC SA600, but if you want a player that may or may not give you problems but is super afforddable and easily replaceable get the Cyberhome. Amazon and Best Buy both sell them, haven't really seen them elsewhere, but I also haven't looked much.

Oh yeah I got my JVC at http://www.jvbdigital.com/ no problems whatsoever.

Rockybalboa
02-23-03, 06:27 PM
Anyone know about the cyberhome 402? Can this player be modded? Anyone know about this peice? Thanks for the info on the 500, I might go that way, hard to tell, there seems to be such mixed feedback.

Sartana
02-23-03, 06:48 PM
Originally posted by Rockybalboa
Anyone know about the cyberhome 402? Can this player be modded? Anyone know about this peice? Thanks for the info on the 500, I might go that way, hard to tell, there seems to be such mixed feedback.

The 402 can be modded too, but unlike the 500 it doesn't have progressive scan, optical outs (not sure if it even has component outs) and it can't disable macrovision. I'd take the negative feedback here with a grain of salt. I think people are quick to dismiss it just because it's so inexpensive. Like I said, check out nerd-out.com for more thorough look at the 500 and 402. While your there, you should look at the Malata and JVC boards just so you can compare.

Rockybalboa
02-23-03, 07:16 PM
Well, for what I want it for, the 500 seems to be the winner, the JVC sounds nice, but pricey for the 10 or so discs I would get. On the 500 series, they have not modified any of the players so the hack does not work, have they? I just ordered a 500 from Amazon, for 89.99 shipped, BB has the 402 for 50 something bucks, I might buy one of those tomorrow to test, as I have an anamorphic tv and would notice the problem if it exists.
Thanks for all info!!!

Sartana
02-23-03, 11:08 PM
The hack still works on the 500 even after the firmware upgrade and the chroma fix. If you do get stuck with a player that hasn't had the chroma fix, then you can exchange it directly through CyberHome's website:

http://www.cyberhomedvd.com/

Of course this chroma problem only affected certain older widescreen tvs.

Rockybalboa
02-24-03, 04:27 PM
Hey all
I just picked up a 402 because the 500 is nowhere to be found. I ran it through my ISCANPRO to convert it to progressive, and I must say, it looks damm good!!!! Not perfect, but for 54.00, not to bad at all!! I am testing it with the movies Arthur and Ford Fairlane, so these are not the best source to begin with, but a HUGE inprovement on the APEX.
Thanks all!!!!

Prancetron2000
02-24-03, 05:41 PM
The Cyberhome 500 is a great DVD player. I've had it for a few months now and it works just fine. Fantastic PAL conversion.

movielib
02-24-03, 10:20 PM
The Cyber Home 500 is available at:

New Egg (http://www.newegg.com/app/viewproduct.asp?description=82-101-002&refer=pricewatch)

Sinister Ash
02-27-03, 06:48 PM
From my personal experience, the cyberhome has a better pal conversion compared to the malata. I have the N996 Malata and Cyberhome CH-500.

The reason I say this is because the Malata has a shimmering problem when it is set on 4 out of 5 filters. 1 of 5 filters eliminates the shimmering effects, but ever so often, there will be scenes that blur. One example is on the HKL Big Boss DVD, during the scene where one of the workers from the ice factory rings the bell, there is distortion.

Cyberhome however, does not have any flaws, and there isn't even a need to switch filters. It automatically figures out the best filter, which gives a non-shimmer or blurring image at any point of any pal dvd. But the colors are not as rich as the Malata.

Plus the cyber home is much cheaper than the malata.

Don't get me wrong though, the malata has great functions, just that if you want to watch Pal, stick with Cyberhome, but for everything else, the malata is great. It's got xy scaling and karaoke feature, which the cyberhome does not.

As for whether to get Ch-500 vs ch-402, the 402 is just as good as the 500, despite the rumors mentioned about improper conversion of pal discs because it did not use the mediamatics chip. I think it's a ESS chip, which has been known to improperly convert pal in other dvd players, but fortunately the 402 converts it perfectly.

Check out nerd-out.com for more on the 402.

dullboy
03-03-03, 04:46 PM
My Cyberhome 500 still has "throbbing" issues with certain PAL discs like my Malata. Is this the chroma issue that people speak of?

Matt Stevens
03-04-03, 04:04 PM
If you don't see the difference between a Cyberhome and an Apex, then you need your eyes checked. The Cyberhome is a very cheap player and has countless issues, which I experienced first hand. First of all, there are faint vertical lines running across the screen that appear in anything red (in 480p they appear over everything). These are not noticeable on a smaller TV. You must have a large screen to see them.

The 480p bug (massive red push and messed up blacks) cannot be fixed for most HDTV sets. Cyberhome sent me a "fixed" player that wasn't. It showed the bugs on 4 out of the 5 sets I tried it on a best Buy (not including mine, so that's 5 out of 6).

This is not a good player. Good luck to those of you that have them. I wish you the best.

Sartana
03-05-03, 02:34 PM
Originally posted by Matt Stevens
The Cyberhome is a very cheap player and has countless issues, which I experienced first hand. First of all, there are faint vertical lines running across the screen that appear in anything red (in 480p they appear over everything). These are not noticeable on a smaller TV. You must have a large screen to see them.

The 480p bug (massive red push and messed up blacks) cannot be fixed for most HDTV sets. Cyberhome sent me a "fixed" player that wasn't. It showed the bugs on 4 out of the 5 sets I tried it on a best Buy (not including mine, so that's 5 out of 6).

This is not a good player. Good luck to those of you that have them. I wish you the best.

I remember you posting this before, and as others have pointed out, this seems to be a problem that only you are experiencing. Specifically, I've never read of anyone else who's had a problem with the vertical lines that you described. I'm not sure what your other "countless problems" are since you didn't list them, but a look at the posts here and at nerd-out.com will show you that CyberHome's fix does work for most people, and on a variety of widescreen sets. Obviously it didn't work for your set-up, but it would appear that most people aren't experiencing the same problems as you.

jkester
03-05-03, 04:08 PM
JVC XVFA902: best.....player......ever

Tony Block
03-05-03, 06:11 PM
Originally posted by Sartana
I remember you posting this before, and as others have pointed out, this seems to be a problem that only you are experiencing. Specifically, I've never read of anyone else who's had a problem with the vertical lines that you described. I'm not sure what your other "countless problems" are since you didn't list them, but a look at the posts here and at nerd-out.com will show you that CyberHome's fix does work for most people, and on a variety of widescreen sets. Obviously it didn't work for your set-up, but it would appear that most people aren't experiencing the same problems as you.

Word!

Prancetron2000
03-06-03, 06:26 PM
I have a 25 inch Panasonic TV and I have noticed those verticle lines. They kind of go up and down across the screen. It's very subtle though, and the new 500 bios update that will be posted at cyberhome.com next week might fix that problem.

d2cheer
03-06-03, 08:48 PM
Originally posted by Prancetron2000
I have a 25 inch Panasonic TV and I have noticed those verticle lines. They kind of go up and down across the screen. It's very subtle though, and the new 500 bios update that will be posted at cyberhome.com next week might fix that problem.

I would also like to post the same fact that my luck with the Cyberhome was very poor also. My daughter bought it and I checked it out throughly because I thought it would make a good cheap alternative but it was very poor.

What size TV is everyone using?? I used a HD-TV 42 inch...

It seems that most people are using smaller TV's and are not noticing these things. However I could be wrong...

Rockybalboa
03-06-03, 11:23 PM
Well, I just placed an order for
JVC XVS-500
From what I could find out, it is the same as the 600 only without dvd audio, which was of no interest to me.

Thoughts?

filmgeek44
03-07-03, 02:04 AM
>>It's very subtle though, and the new 500 bios update that will be posted at cyberhome.com next week might fix that problem.

Huh? Did I miss an announcement of this?

richard98
03-10-03, 04:41 PM
Ordered the Cyberhome 500 from newegg last week to replace my ailing apex AD600. Got it today with their 2 day fed-ex saver service. I'm very impressed with the PAL to NTSC conversion after playing around with it for a few minutes.

Sopranos R4 and Blood Simple R2 looked perfect to me; these looked horrible on the Apex.

Tony Block
03-10-03, 08:12 PM
Originally posted by d2cheer
What size TV is everyone using?? I used a HD-TV 42 inch...


32" WEGA with 16x9 capabilities

murpm3
03-11-03, 02:25 PM
I have the Cyberhome 402...and absolutely love it. The PAL to NTSC is great (Like others said, I do not understand where rumors started that it did not do the conversion well).

I am viewing it on a Mitsu WS55859 or 55 inch 16:9 rptv.

The only think I hate is the amount of red it puts out....however a simple Avia tune up on that input fixed the problem.

The 402 is pretty much the same as the 500 except for the following:

-No progressive scan (IT DOES HAVE COMPONENT OUTPUTS HOWEVER)

-No optical out (IT DOES HAVE DIGITAL COAX OUT HOWEVER)

I already have 3 progressive devices hooked up through my HDTV and I was out of component inputs to use. I dont watch PAL and multi region dvds too often so I decided progressive scan wasn't too big of a deal to me. My TV does have a line doubler which kinda makes things progressive, althought not as good as my progressive player. I just have the 402 hooked up via s-video.

I am very happy with the player...it was only $40.00. I could have spent $300.00 on a JVC or Malata but for the amount that I would really those players, I cant justify the cost.

I have a Panny RP-62 as my regular player.

ipkevin
03-11-03, 03:16 PM
Would someone please kindly confirm:

Does the 402 do PAL->NTSC conversion *AND* anamorphic downconversion properly at the same time?

So it's not just watching an anamorphic PAL disc on your anamorphic 16x9 NTSC TV.

It's specifically watching an anamorphic PAL disc on your regular 4:3 NTSC TV. Is there any distortion of the image?

paranoized
03-11-03, 04:04 PM
Originally posted by ipkevin
Would someone please kindly confirm:

Does the 402 do PAL->NTSC conversion *AND* anamorphic downconversion properly at the same time?

So it's not just watching an anamorphic PAL disc on your anamorphic 16x9 NTSC TV.

It's specifically watching an anamorphic PAL disc on your regular 4:3 NTSC TV. Is there any distortion of the image?


I can verify the CH-402 does indeed do proper anamorphic downconversion on 4:3 TVs. You might notice a slight asymmetry in the letterboxing, but geometry is correct. Apparently, the very early production models had a problem with downconversion, but it has since been corrected... that's why you'll read conflicting reports on the internet.

That said, the (new) CH-402's PAL conversion is decent. I'd like to review it some more, but mine died two days ago... probably a bad power supply. I only got about 6 hours out of it before it kicked off.

dullboy
03-11-03, 04:49 PM
I had Cyberhome send me a firmware upgrade disc to try to correct the "throbbing" or "shimmering" of images on PAL discs. It didn't work. I don't know what to do now, and it seems that they don't either seeing as how I received no response to my email.

paranoized
03-11-03, 05:31 PM
Originally posted by dullboy
I had Cyberhome send me a firmware upgrade disc to try to correct the "throbbing" or "shimmering" of images on PAL discs. It didn't work. I don't know what to do now, and it seems that they don't either seeing as how I received no response to my email.


Because there's nothing they can do about it...

Shimmering is not a firmware issue; it's a PAL conversion and interlacing issue. You either live with it or change your setup.

There's no such thing as 100% perfect conversion. The only perfect solution is no conversion at all.

dullboy
03-12-03, 07:53 AM
Quote:

"Because there's nothing they can do about it...

Shimmering is not a firmware issue; it's a PAL conversion and interlacing issue. You either live with it or change your setup.

There's no such thing as 100% perfect conversion. The only perfect solution is no conversion at all."


So why do I not here anyone else complaining about this on any of the forums? Most everyone else seems to think it has great PAL conversion. I think it sucks.

darmok
03-12-03, 11:13 AM
PAL disc playback is very jittery/jumpy on the CH-500...i've tried several PAL R2 discs that work fine on other players and DVD-ROM (R2 battle royale, R2 god of gamblers) and they play fine on them, but on the CH-500 the image stutters and lags (like if the player is overwhelmed so playback is jerky or "throbbing"). i am on the latest firmware downloaded from their website. i posted this with argus tech support but haven't heard back from them. i guess i'm not the only one experiencing this. it's very annoying, i can't enjoy a PAL disc becuz of the jumpy image!

Sartana
03-12-03, 02:54 PM
That's definitely not a defect that occurs on all 500s. Mine plays PAL beautifully without any stutter or "throbbing". Have you tried an exchange? I doubt a firmware upgrade is going to help if most other 500 owners aren't even seeing this problem.

Granted, there's no such thing as "perfect" PAL conversion (you're always going to see some side effects when you convert x number of line of resolution down to a lesser number of lines), but you shouldn't be seeing any stuttering or jumping of the image. The worst thing you should see, assuming you aren't using the progressive scan feature, are jagged edges. And remember a poorly authored PAL disc is going to look even worse converted to NTSC. I was horrified at the quality of the first PAL disc I put in my 500 (CINEMA PARADISO), but it turned out it was just a lousy disc and didn't have anything to do with the player.

darmok
03-12-03, 03:05 PM
uh oh....guess i better RMA my CH-500 for the progressive display problem AND now this PAL jumpy image problem. my gf noticed the problem as well, so it's not my imagination. darn!

paranoized
03-12-03, 03:20 PM
Originally posted by darmok
PAL disc playback is very jittery/jumpy on the CH-500...i've tried several PAL R2 discs that work fine on other players and DVD-ROM (R2 battle royale, R2 god of gamblers) and they play fine on them, but on the CH-500 the image stutters and lags (like if the player is overwhelmed so playback is jerky or "throbbing").

It's dropping frames; I've seen it also. By any chance are those two R2 discs put out by the same company?

darmok
03-12-03, 03:32 PM
they're from various well-known R2 companies....battle royale's from tartan; god of gamblers is from MIA. i've even tried some HKL (hong kong legends) discs and they all slug on playback. these discs are fine on other players. btw, i'm using standard composite video only (the cable that comes with the player).

paranoized
03-12-03, 03:46 PM
Originally posted by darmok
they're from various well-known R2 companies....battle royale's from tartan; god of gamblers is from MIA. i've even tried some HKL (hong kong legends) discs and they all slug on playback. these discs are fine on other players. btw, i'm using standard composite video only (the cable that comes with the player).

Well, chances are it's just software incompatibility. What you have to do is find other people who have the same player and DVDs, or test your DVDs on someone else's CH-500. If other people are having the same problems, all of the problematic titles should be brought to Argus' attention so they can fix it in the future.

Sartana
03-12-03, 03:55 PM
One thing I do know is that Tartan's R2 BATTLE ROYALE is a poorly authored disc. I haven't seen it on the 500, but others have reported it's low quality in comparison to Tartan's later All Region NTSC release of the film.

dullboy
03-12-03, 04:33 PM
My Tartan Battle Royale disc also drops frames on my Cyberhome. Others that look jittery and throbbing are the spanish releases of The Others and Thesis. I wonder if I can exchange my player through the Cyberhome web site.

Bleddyn Williams
06-06-03, 08:22 AM
From my personal experience, the cyberhome has a better pal conversion compared to the malata. I have the N996 Malata and Cyberhome CH-500.

But the $64,000 dollar question is - are you capable of using the progressive output of the Malata? I've just reviewed this thread and I'm not sure this issue has been raised once.

The Malata shines if you have a progressive-capable display. The shimmering issues in all my R2 discs are gone in this mode.

If you have an interlaced output, you are not getting all you can out of your Malata.

renaldow
06-06-03, 09:51 AM
Originally posted by Bleddyn Williams
If you have an interlaced output, you are not getting all you can out of your Malata.

That same statement can be made about any player on the market. And, there are PS region free players that are much better than the Malata as well when using that mode.

Josh Z
06-06-03, 10:04 AM
Originally posted by renaldow
That same statement can be made about any player on the market. And, there are PS region free players that are much better than the Malata as well when using that mode.

Yes, but the Malata is one of the best region-free progressive DVD players.

You can get better quality from a dedicated region 1 machine, but for those multi-region titles the Malata is the way to go.

I advocate owning two DVD players.