CaptainMarvel

Does anybody know where to find some white 12 gauge speaker wire? I can find plenty of the clear insulation style, but I'm having trouble finding a place that carries any with white insulation. The clear insulation just looks terrible on my walls... if that's the best I can do, I'll settle. But I would prefer white.

Any help?

tonyj

Check out large hardware stores. You can usually find good deals on spools of wire in white. At Lowes I found a 250 ft. spool of 12 for $110. They had some 16 that was flat for running under carpet that that was also white and looked like it would be great for walls, as well. If they don't have it in stock, they can all order it for you.

bfrank

Why 12 ga? Do you have low impedance speakers?

CaptainMarvel

I've read tons of posts at hometheaterforum that say that while 16-gauge is okay for your fronts which are closer, that something larger is recommended for rears. The way my rears are set up, it's about a 50 ft run. In my old apartment, the run was a lot shorter, and I was happier with the way they sounded. I don't know if those two are related, but I'm willing to assume they are.

Of course, like anything else I've read about anything related to audio, an almost equal number of people have come out and said that you don't need 12-gauge. Nobody agrees, but if there's a chance it will help out, I'll take it.

renaldow

Check out Radio Shack, they should have white speaker wire too.

CaptainMarvel

I did, but they don't have white 12-gauge. I think the biggest white speaker wire they carry is 16-gauge, which I'm using now.

CaptainMarvel

Good news! Carol cable makes some, and I can order it from them (so long as I order 25,000 feet worth). And another company told me they could only ship it in quantities of 50,000 to 100,000 ft.

That's just a wee bit much.

cowanrg

speaker cable is best for speakers...

try finding REAL speaker cable, even a 16 guage will sound better than that 12 guage "cable" thats not made for audio. monster xp navajo white is one type, its like $0.35 a foot. very reasonable.

drmoze

cowan, please tell me exactly why "REALspeaker cable" will sound better than "12 gauge 'cable' that's not made for audio." Please be specific, citing any conductive or other differences between the two. (I hate to break it to ya, but any reasonable conductor of sufficient current capacity will be fine for audio purposes. Oh yeah. And while I'm at it, 'oxygen/defect-free' cable is a load of marketing poop.)

CaptainMarvel

For that matter, where are you even finding Monster Cable at $0.35 a foot? My local ma and pop store sells 12 gauge Monster Navajo at about $1.50 a foot, and the approximately 15 gauge Monster Navajo XP at Circuit City is around $0.65 a foot.

CaptainMarvel

Did you know that Monster Cable now sells batteries as well? Except they call them Monster "Powercells."

DVD_O_Rama

Ok, I'll take the bait.

Feel free to enlighten me as to what's incorrect about this blurb and why you feel that way.

Because of course, no battery company in history (Duracell, Energizer, et al) has ever put a spin on terminology to get a leg up on their competition, now have they?

, indeed.

bfrank

D_O_R, I think that was kind of uncalled for.

I think CM was just making light of excessive marketing and was not challenging anyone.

CaptainMarvel

right back at you.

Soooooo... because OTHER battery companies have used exaggerations and hyperbole, Monster can't be criticized for doing it too? I'd damn sure make fun of Duracell if they consistently put out horribly overpriced products, while at the same time just completely inventing new terminology to make it sound special.

Have you ever read any of their ads? They're so packed full of lingo that they're meaningless. "Low loss construction"? "Advanced chemistry"? "Micro-granular electrolytes"? It's one thing to claim their product has these things, provided they turn around and explain them at some point. It's another to just invent a term and pretend like it makes sense, and it just serves to make people say "Ooh, that must be good."

Why don't I try it? I'm one of the world's best athletes. Why? Because I've got Max-Fluctuation Twitch Muscle Control. Wow! And I've got Extra-Optic Ultra Panoramic Depth Perception. That must be good. Don't forget my Hyper-Low Impact Shock Reduction Network, exclusive to me.

Now aren't you ready to give me a huge salary?

DVD_O_Rama

Originally posted by CaptainMarvel
Soooooo... because OTHER battery companies have used exaggerations and hyperbole, Monster can't be criticized for doing it too?

Monster gets criticized all the time and this being a free country, their name is as good a target as any on forums such as this one. However, it's when uninformed bandwagon-jumpers decide to trounce their name because others are doing it that it begins to grate my nerves.
Fact: Exaggeration & Hyperbole = Marketing, regardless of what company or product is being pushed (which was the whole point of my initial post, btw)
Meaning if Monster is going to get slammed for making claims (which the blurb you posted did NOT), why aren't the other battery companies?
Isn't the absolute bottom line of an ad campaign to convince you that "XYZ" product is the absolute, be-all end-all best there is? Kinda seems that way to me.


I'd damn sure make fun of Duracell if they consistently put out horribly overpriced products, while at the same time just completely inventing new terminology to make it sound special.

Browsing my local Wal-mart, I spotted an Energizer AAA battery...the "e2" model. Sold for about 7.97 for a 8 pack. (the Panasonics next to it sold for 5.98). Supposedly, this battery would "deliver exceptional power for all your devices." and used "Advanced titanium technology..." and "Alkaline technology". Overpriced?

Have you ever read any of their ads? They're so packed full of lingo that they're meaningless.
See above Energizer blurbs. Methinks Monster is not alone.

"Low loss construction"? "Advanced chemistry"? "Micro-granular electrolytes"? It's one thing to claim their product has these things, provided they turn around and explain them at some point. It's another to just invent a term and pretend like it makes sense, and it just serves to make people say "Ooh, that must be good."

Or...perhaps some of us have experience with the aforementioned products and those *ahem* 'invented terms' actually do make sense. Knowledge is power.
I would wager that Monster (and other companies) are hoping their prospective customers have an inkling about the product(s) they are shopping for and don't need a glossary of terms on the back of every single package to explain things.

Why don't I try it? I'm one of the world's best athletes. Why? Because I've got Max-Fluctuation Twitch Muscle Control. Wow! And I've got Extra-Optic Ultra Panoramic Depth Perception. That must be good. Don't forget my Hyper-Low Impact Shock Reduction Network, exclusive to me.

Now aren't you ready to give me a huge salary?

DVD_O_Rama

What was uncalled for?
Please explain...as I don't want a whippin', no siree.
I'll be a good boy a slink back into the corner now

(BTW, the name's Erik )

cowanrg

i would like to note one small little detail that has yet to come out...

monster batteries are rated at 1800mah, meaning that it can generate 1800ma for an hour. this is a battery's capacity rating. most ALL rechargeables are rated at 1100mah or 1200mah. so, 1800mah is actually quite a bit more power than anyone else.

who cares how they say it, they do hold more juice :-)

CaptainMarvel

And it seems like you jump to Monster's defense quite adamantly every time they get criticized, usually in the form of "your opinion is uneducated, so it's invalid." I couldn't care less if it grates your nerves. If you aren't being paid off by them now, you should be, for how quick you are to defend them and discount anybody else's opinion.

Maybe Monster wouldn't get slammed so much if it wasn't so damn omnipresent? I could take advertising and hyperbole and rhetoric, if other competitors were available. But visit your Circuit City or Tweeter... many of them stock exclusively Monster Cable. Why? Great profit margins for one thing. They make good stuff (not great), but it's overpriced for what you get. If you bring your product into larger markets, you open yourself up to more criticism.

And Monster has just as many parroters as it does critics; in fact, this thread was about trying to find speaker wire, and somebody hops in, ignores everything that's said before (where was it mentioned I was looking at anything OTHER than speaker wire?), and recommends Monster XP. That's what started the whole Monster discussion in the first place.

Quote:

Fact: Exaggeration & Hyperbole = Marketing, regardless of what company or product is being pushed (which was the whole point of my initial post, btw)
Meaning if Monster is going to get slammed for making claims (which the blurb you posted did NOT), why aren't the other battery companies?

The other companies haven't tried to sell me a $40+ digital optical cable, for one thing. It's a piece of damn fiber optic cable... I don't care how pretty the insulation is, it isn't going to give me better audio quality.

I wasn't aware that if I criticized one company at one point in time, I have to criticize every other company right then.

Quote:

Isn't the absolute bottom line of an ad campaign to convince you that "XYZ" product is the absolute, be-all end-all best there is? Kinda seems that way to me.

Kinda seems like they screwed that one up then. I won't be buying their product. If they had just explained what their product did, why it was better, and sold it at a reasonable price point, I might give it a shot.

Quote:

Browsing my local Wal-mart, I spotted an Energizer AAA battery...the "e2" model. Sold for about 7.97 for a 8 pack. (the Panasonics next to it sold for 5.98). Supposedly, this battery would "deliver exceptional power for all your devices." and used "Advanced titanium technology..." and "Alkaline technology". Overpriced?

Again, you're trying to make your point through faulty logic. Whether Monster is guilty of overpricing a product, or coming up with fancy terms for features all batteries have, or anything else isn't impacted by whether Energizer is doing the same thing. That's the equivalent of the "Well I cheated, but so did Suzi" excuse.

And $7.97 for an 8 pack (and $5.98 for the Panasonics), but $9.95 for an 8 pack of Monster sounds overpriced to me. It's not a bank breaker, but the price difference between the Panasonics and the Monster is significant. At least Duracell and Energizer can say they're banking on an established name; Monster's expensive, but their name value is open to debate at best (especially since there are all of us "ignorant" people who just irrationally hate them for no reason whatsoever).

Quote:

Or...perhaps some of us have experience with the aforementioned products and those *ahem* 'invented terms' actually do make sense. Knowledge is power.
I would wager that Monster (and other companies) are hoping their prospective customers have an inkling about the product(s) they are shopping for and don't need a glossary of terms on the back of every single package to explain things.

There you go... you must *ahem* know better than anybody else, right? I have firsthand *ahem* knowledge with *ahem* (that coughing thing really does add emphasis, doesn't it?) Monster products as well, and in my subjective view, I was underwhelmed.

I would take your wager, and I think you'd be owing me money. I think Monster is looking for mass market, name brand recognition. That's why you'll find their stuff in Circuit City and Home Depot. I think that's EXACTLY why Monster comes up with all the lingo... because it sounds good, and the average consumer won't know any better.

Quote:

I made up a bunch of terms. I guess Monster's got a genius marketing strategy when they do it, but it's merely confusing when I do it. Right?

bfrank

Look this is a case where both points are acurate. Erik the made it personal, the post without would be no big deal. But read the post as if it was addressed to you. It demanded a response. This stuff can quickly become a flame war.

My view is Monster is a marketing company much like Bose. I have meet the founder and he admits this. In an example of the marketing excess. Every year they book a headline band and rent out a hall in Las Vegas for the Consumer Electronic Show. They give the tickets for free to there dealers and industy. They give free drinks and food. Any idea of the cost for something like this. This event has nothing to do with marketing to the public it is all about building the image with the dealer base. Who pays for this type of excess?

IMO you can find identical quality products for much less. Now brand name has alot to do with pride of ownership so we should leave that to each person to factor that in.

This is a great topic lets just be nice.

DVD_O_Rama

I do realize I come to Monster's defense alot, and while I don't get paid by them I am working on an endorsement deal with my band (whole 'nother story) .

I have no problem being nice. Ok, maybe I do, but that's because I'm a card-carrying Elitist Bastard. I'll gladly let Capatin Marvel's last post go un-replied to, as it's beginning to bog down the whole thread with ridiculous poo-poo comments (that do make me smile, so that's a plus).

One last thing though...if the 'rolleyes' thing made it personal, bfrank, I would think that the first time it appeared did so, which was not my post, but Capt. Marvel's.


Ok, one more last thing...to all those who bash Monster for being overpriced...two words: Black Mamba.


Cheers.

drmoze

"low-loss construction" - OK, that's legit, as battery component configurations can lead to skin losses etc.

"advanced chemistry" - well, duh, any company will say their 'chemistry' is 'advanced'! No harm there.

"micro-granular electrolytes" - WHAT??!?!?! Any undergrad chem major knows that the 'electrolytes' in batteries (including the alkaline cells here) are aqueous and not 'granular' at all. This is either a bit of marketing malarkey or else the company goofed and didn't check *their* technical glossary. I'm sure the zinc in the anode is microgranular (which is pretty standard, if not vague) but the electrolytes are your basic hydroxide solution, with (hopefully) no granularity to it at all.

D_O_R, here's one case where the educated consumer won't be impressed by technobabble.

BTW (going back to an earlier point), didja know that the fancy oxygen-free copper hyped in the cables has a conductivity (and impedance properties) thatvaries by only about 2-3% tops over plain annealed regular copper? The gauge will make a *much* bigger difference in performance (if any is to be found) than using overpriced O-free or specific 'speaker' cables.

CaptainMarvel

Was I responding to you with a rolleyes?

Those rolleyes weren't directed at you; they were directed at Monster's marketing of the batteries. You hadn't even posted in the thread yet, and I don't believe I've ever replied or responded to anything you've written before this thread. I fail to see how that could possibly be interpreted as anything "personal" at anybody, much less a personal comment directed at you.

Thank you for ignoring my "ridiculous poo poo comments" so as to not perpetuate any argument. Nice passive-aggressive attack there- that's always nice. I'm also a fan of the "you're a stinky-stinky dirty liar" rebuttal as well.

As far as I'm concerned, this thread can either be closed, or the title can be changed. My original need for white speaker cables is nil now, and all this thread has become is another Monster "bashers versus zealots" thread. Maybe it should just be retitled to something Monster related.