Stoolie

This was a quote said to me, along with more condemnation about how video games offer no redeeming qualities and are a waste of time. Obviously, I disagree.

At the expense of writing my own manifesto, can anybody point me to some books or perhaps a mission statement that has some quality defense of video games? Personally I'm starting to enjoy gaming more than watching movies, which I never thought would happen.

Do you think video games will ever take their place along side movies, tv, and music as a viable and quality (in the eyes of the mainstream) form of entertainment, worthy of major awards shows and social importance?

stoolie

Captain Harlock

Unfortunately there are people who, no matter what you say, just "don't get it". These are people who've usually never played a video game ever in their lives so often they have no idea what the experience is like.

One thing you can point to is the puzzle solving element. Some video games you have to employ quite a bit of deductive reasoning to be able to accomplish a set goal or mission.

Video games have only been with us for about 25 or maybe 30 years. So there are still going to be some nay-sayers amongst people who will argue tooth and nail about games being a waste of time. But to me it's no bigger a waste of time than crossword puzzles, or backgammon, or Scrabble, or casino gambling, or horse racing, or the theater, or stamp collecting or whatever pursuit that people over the centurys have undertaken to enjoy themselves.

I think the fact that the video game industry made more money in 2001 than the film industy is a very telling sign that video games have finally come of age.

spainlinx0

Actually they didn't make more. I think that number is ONLY if you count American box office receipts. When you figure in foreign sales along with home video sales, the movie industry still has the lead.

The Bus

Anyone that would make a blanket statement so obfuscated, backwards, and ignorant as the one directed at you does not deserve to be involved in any argument requiring intellect. Simply nod, throw them some change, and walk away.

RichC2

Just to comment, if the person who made that comment has ever watched a hollywood movie, he's being a hypocrit. I mean - Videogames are essentially interactive movies, they work on eye-hand coordination, and more and more require you to think about what you're doing and how to go about doing it.

Save for the lame reasoning XXX came up with, there are some validity that Videogames are a viable medium.

Cornfed

Video games will make us stupid... Well the same could be said about any media. Those with increasing aversion to video games are probably being stupefied by the evening news programs that make claims that video gamers constantly exclaim "I AM GOD" as they shoot innocent bystanders in a virtual city.

Everyone in the media is out to make it seem that the population of video gamers is some kind of occult. Look at the sales of the current generation of video game systems. That could cover 35 million people in America. If video games were as debauching as they make it seem, the United States would have gone up in flames a couple years ago. Hell, Korea and Japan would no longer be on the map.

Roan

I had an art history class in college and the teacher told me something I'll never forget. He said that taste is not disputable. A person who sees no value in video games has no right to condemn a person who does see that value. Everyone has the right to their own taste and no one should say that another person's taste or preference in something is stupid just because they can't understand why the other person has a different opinion or taste. The easiest way to make oneself look good is to make another person look bad. It sounds like whoever said that video games are stupid was just trying to make himself look smart. It's almost as though he's saying that he's too "good" for video games. Well, to each his own.

kar10

I think there is a tear in my eye!

You just inspired me with your words.

I'll keep playing video games until dead do us apart.

Noonan

Very simple. If someone says that games make you stupid, tell them to go beat Myst. Then when they can't get past the first scene proceed to flame them as much as possible.

JaxComet

And I suppose they think that watching Survivor and Friends will make you smart.......

CaptDS9E

Yeah I have heared people say games make you stupid, and then i dare them beat myst, a space quest game or so on. If they are so stupid then everyone should beat them

capt

davidlynchfan

I think those that says Video Game makes you stupid probably had only played:

Kabuki Warriors
Bruce Lee Quest of the Dragon

and then gave up on Gaming for good.

jeffdsmith

Nice post Roan.

razorbackfan

It's interesting that the military use video games to sharpen their combat skills. I've used video games in my work to sharpen reaction time.

Try this link for more info:

http://sandradodd.com/games/page

Sloth911

I am assuming that this was said to you buy a college professor? I believe this good reason for this statement, that is more then "just because" or "I am right, you are stupid" or "a matter of personal choice" or "they just don’t get it"

Dont get me wrong, I am a big fan of videogames BUT I am going to tackle this anti-video game comment from the perspective off a person who doesn't like them, but NOT "just because" rather I will give a LOGICAL reason that can easily be correlated with statistics. I personally agree with this statement and its adverse effects scare me.
_________________________
Evolution of media formats:

1. Human interactions v1.0
2. Grunts
2. Talking v1.0 (oral history, plays, acting)
3. written/books
4. Radio = talking v2.0
5. Movies = human interactions v2.0 + talking v2.0
6. Videogames = human interactions v3.0 + talking v2.0
7. Internet = human interactions v4.0 + talking v3.0
_________________________

I am a teacher, and I deal with this all the time. It is easy to understand why people say "video games offer no redeeming qualities and are a waste of time". Why?

The evolution of media formats has cause a DRASTIC shift in how children spend there free time.

Currently, at HOME one can listen to music, watch a movie, play a game, read a book, and use the internet.

The further back the evolution of media you travel, the LESS and LESS you could do at home in your spare time. You had to "go out" to do these things. So, it was more likely that in your spare time you would read more, talk more.... however as media has evolved, there has been MORE and MORE that you can do at home, which involved less and less reading, writing, and talking.

So, people like me who are in there 20's started with Atari, and were at the cusp of:

"6. Videogames = human interactions v3.0 + talking v2.0"

Which basically far surpass movies in allowing one to escape from reality... still supply ample verbal and social interactions within the game.

Now, TODAY kids that are in Elementary School and Middle School have been immersed in N64 and PSX since they were able to pick up a controller. Immersed in a fantasy world that stimulated them verbally and socially within the game.

This result has created a generation of kids who hardly read, who spend hours upon hours of playing games in a completed immersed state, within a fantasy world. and when they are not doing that, they are staring at Sponge Bob Square Pants on TV.

The problem, BOOKS, Teachers, and schools CANNOT effectively compete with modern movies and video games which are accessible at home 24 hours a day. It’s not like 40 years ago when the whole family would go see a "picture show" once a month, THEN afterwards sit at home, talk over dinner, and read a book in the evening.

IMO and allot of other teachers and college professors, this is where the comment "video games offer no redeeming qualities and are a waste of time" comes from... and if you read this far, I am sure you have a better understanding of why someone said this.

In summary, Video games remove the need for REAL social interactions with other people, REPLACING reading and writing. Social interactions and reading make you a smarter more intelligent person.

Do you really question this? Look at half the athletes who talk on TV they sound like idiots even after HOURS of being trained in public speaking and for REAL proof, look at the Music Awards shows and the pure ignorance and stupidity exhibited by most rappers. They talk like the live in a THIRD world country!! Why? No reading, no writing, not constructive social interaction.

This is not even remotely close to true. The fact of the matter is that reading (studying) and intelligent debate among other humans makes you a smarter person. These games help you increase your vocabulary, being able to express your thoughts in a more articulate manner.

To compare million dollar flight and tank simulators to a PS2, Xbox is just silly. These are designed to replace multi-million dollar jets/tank and all the fuel they use. The offer REAL total immersion, and are designed not for entertainment, but rather to replace multi-million dollar jets/tanks etc.

If the US military had unlimited money, they would not use the video games at all.

Increase your reaction time to what? Pixels on a screen, you ability to push a button?

I agree, however they often do not increase you vocabulary or your ability to socially interact with real people. Presumably you have already built up allot of you thinking/social skills, nowadays kids are to consumed by games, developing gaming skills, not social/thinking skills.

++++++++++++
You want more proof that things have changed, how many people do you think read my entire post? Or got bored, hit "back" and read another post, or better yet, went to another form of easily accessible media, like a TV, video game, etc!

McHawkson

[Forrest Gump]Stupid is as stupid does.[/Forrest Gump]

Groucho

Excellent essay, jasonr114. However, note that everything you say is also true of television and DVDs. I'm guessing the person quoted in the original post has no problems partaking in those activities, which are much more passive than videogames.

Giantrobo

A few years back a study came out showing how video games have IMPROVED "Hand/Eye" coordination in today's young people.

Sloth911

I agree, that was kinda part of my point, TV and movies are more passive. Hence, they provide LESS imersion then a Video Game.

IMO, less is kinda better, because you must still rely on the real world ---- you follow?

The more "Active" or "anti-passive" a media format (video games) the more you can escape from reality, the less you need the real world interactions. does that make sense?

I again say that i like video games, i just think that in rasing of children, TV, movies, Video games, and internet has preveneted them from having the same developmental opputunities that other generations have had.

I mean, the sterotypical computer nerd status has went from an isolated few really smart people, to the masses with the advent and popularity of video games.

This is most likely true, but what are people using all this increased hand/eye cordination for? And more importantly, what skills are they NOT developing.

A few years ago, research said smoking was not bad for you. While i myself use research results allot, you must be very critical of where the information is coming from. I am wondering who this research was financed by.

Is there anyone here that does real research for someone? i am sure then can vouch for how corrupt some research is!

Captain Harlock

It's interesting you should say that. I admit that I don't read as much as I should. Not because I fill my free time with video games or movies. I found that most books I was required to read in school were BORING!!

Picture this. I'm fifteen years old and I'm in English class and we are handed a copy of Ethan Frome. I read every page of this dreck and then I'm asked to give my "impressions" of it in front of the whole class. I stood up and looked the teacher in the eye and said "This book SUCKS!! And I'll tell you why!!" I then proceeded to go into a laundry list of reasons of why I didn't like the book. Let's just say my "frank interpretation" wasn't recieved very enthusiastically.

Just about every thing I read in school I found unrelatable. And this in part drove me to Japanese anime and comic books. Now one might say that "comic books have no redeeming value" either. But at their core it's still story telling. There's still the same basic themes you can pull out them; Good vs. Evil, making the right choices, doing the "right" thing. And all I ever heard from teachers was "That's not really reading" or "that's not serious literature". I had countless teachers ask me what I was reading, and when I told them "Spider-Man" or "Daredevil" they'd all say the same thing "Oh you should read something serious". Not a single one of them EVER said to me "Have you ever read Lord Of The Rings? I think you might enjoy that." They just kept shoving more Shakespeare and Arthur Miller in my face.

I'm getting a bit off topic here. But I think the problem with alot of public school teachers is that not that they can't "compete" it's that they can't "relate" to kids anymore. How can you expect a 15 year old in the 21st Century to be able to relate to 65 year old salesman Willy Loman? Many school systems are still using required reading lists from the early 60's, even the 50's. Now if you say "well those are classics". I'd have to ask what makes Ethan Frome more of a classic than X-Men the Dark Phoenix saga? Do you really think that teachers are fostering a love of reading if every book a kid reads he's mired in the tediousness of the material? I think not.

Also you have to remember the dynamic of the family has changed. Forty years ago just about every mother was an at home mom. Now mothers have careers and don't have time to sit with the kids and discuss what they are doing in school. Take into account also that many children are from single parent homes. Children either live with one parent or the other. So many times nobody is around. In single parent homes money is often tight so they can't afford to take the kids to the "picture show"at $9 a pop.

I'm not trying to lay blame on the public school system or the breakdown of the family for the proliferation of video gaming. But I don't think that video games are the sole reason for anti social behavior, violence in schools, or the decline in literacy.

jw2299

No one in my adult life has told me that games will make you stupid, but I defend games like this.

I would rather participate in my entertainment experience by solving puzzles, interacting with others, and exploring environments on my own than be told what to enjoy by network media or Hollywood movies and have a non-participating, passive observer role.

I can't understand the people who condemn games, then go sit in front of CBS (or any network) television all night. Talk about making you stupid! Have you ever listened to the dialogue of prime time shows!? That crap is the stupidest stuff I've ever witnessed in my life.


edited to fix my spelling! talk about making you stoopid!

Sloth911

i agree that allot of problems are defintely caused by the breakdown of the nucelar family structre. trust me, i see it every day, more then you can imagine.

I dont think they are the reason for, it however, the main emphasis of my argument is that Video Games have replaced a place that was once filled with some sort of reading. Comic books are perfect. Usually reaging comic books will lead more readinf of other non-comic books.

But you READ it, and hopefully, like i think you hinted towards, you gave constructive criticism to the teacher.

The problem, as i see it, is that access to video games at early childhood ages has reaplaced reading books. So when they have to erad "Ethan From" or "Insert crappy, unrelated novel title here" they cant READ it, they dont have the basic reading skills, and more importantly the attention span that sitting down to read a book requires.

I am really not making my opinons based on our generation (X). my concern is for those typical "fan boys" you see putting up posts.... they will grow up one day, and i dont think they will have aquired the proper skills that we have during our younger years.

Note, just because you dont like it, or it seems unrelated, doenst mean it is.
LOL... the family that has $300 PS2 on the release date, an cabinet full of $50 games, a $30 2nd controller, and a $15 memory card, can certinaly afford a $9/month movie!

the problem is not that movies are being replaced, but supplemented by video games.

TV -> VG -> Movie -> TV -> internet
... dont know if that is the best way a kid in elemenatry school should be growing up in his early years. mine as well smoke some pot, and have some real excapisim

Sloth911

I think that an educated argument (and mine) against video games is aimed towards young children in middle school, NOT adults.

kinda of like adults do XXXXXXX all the time, but kids shoudlnt do XXXXXXX all the time.

most of the people who dislike video games for an intelligent reason probably dislike TV and movies. The people i know do.

This about the 5th time in this post people have done something like this:

1. people that do XXXXX cant complain about YYYYYYYY, they are a hipocrite.
2. XXXXXX is just as, if not more stupid then YYYYYYYYY

While both statements above may be true (in any form), you are playing a game of smoke in mirriors. They remove the arguement from the topic at hand, placing emphasis on something else that is differnet then the intial argument

Captain Harlock

Yeah I did read it. And that's because I was FORCED TO and I wouldn't say I "hated" it because the word "hate" isn't strong enough for the way I feel about Ethan Frome. I still attribute to this day, the New Haven, CT public school system for destroying my interest in reading. And I really do feel that some literature is unrelatable.

I think the real reason this is happening is that alot of parents use video games as a babysitter. Parents aren't being parents anymore. It's easy to sit back and say "video games are the reason kids don't read". But if a parent doesn't have some kind of control over their childrens activities then what? Unfortunately many parents get thier kids systems because it "keeps them quiet". Unfortunately you can't legislate "good parenting".

This problem runs deeper than merely "video games are bad".

Okay now. That might just be the capper to this whole debate.

Michael Corvin

a touching story:
I felt the same way in high school('90-'94). The Great Gatsby, The Scarlett Letter, A seperate piece, The Crucible. But for all those that suck there wound up being one that was pretty darn good(Of Mice and Men, Old Man and the Sea, The Monkey's Paw, The Tell Tale Heart). But this experience left a bad taste in my mouth, I was talking about it at work one night declaring that I would NEVER read a book again, unless it was required for school. Then from the unlikeliest sources the resident deadhead/pot head said to read Skeleton Crew by Stephen King, and I will change my mind. So I decide, what the hell. I flew through that book and about 300 others in the span of 3 years. I now have my own little library in my home. I actually got in trouble in one english class for reading the firm during class than The Crucible. And I would actually skip boring field trips so i could focus on my new book(at the time).

Just to think, I learned more from that guy then any high school english teacher. Does reading equal out to my game playing time right now? No, for two reasons, there are so many great games out the past couple of months I am far behind on them all. Two, I've read so many books in the past 7-8 years, I have burned myself out. I got to a point where I could read 200 pages an hour. Not a bad feat. So to sum it all up, the teacher needs to help each kid find the one book that will interest them in reading, the rest will fall into place.

Now I have been wondering about something as well, I don't have kids but this will be the first generation where the parent may play as much as the kids. So how (I don't have kids) do you tell junior to go read a book while daddy clears level 5 on Halo 2?