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Treasure Planet : "Borrowed" Concept [Archive] - DVD Talk Forum
 
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View Full Version : Treasure Planet : "Borrowed" Concept


adnaanks
11-10-02, 01:39 AM
It seems like Disney is running out of creativity when it comes to animated films. First of all Treasure Planet is a remake, like many other Disney films and then they have the nerve to "borrow" the flying pirate ships / air ships World theme from Sega's amazing "Skies of Arcadia".

Just wanted to bring this to your attention so that people know where Disney looks for "inspiration" these days.

Click here to see Skies of Arcadia's screen shots : http://www.rpgamer.com/games/arcadia/soa/soass.html

Rogue588
11-10-02, 02:50 AM
Thanks for the update. -rolleyes-

In their promotion Disney states it's based on Robert Louis Stevenson's Treasure Island. And they didn't borrow "flying pirate ships" from Sega. Peter Pan's flight anyone? So the nerve is Sega's.

But, of course, this is all semantics.

Jackskeleton
11-10-02, 03:09 AM
so there has only been flying pirate ships/ air ships in games such as Skies of arcadia? -rolleyes-

I think the very idea of saying "Tressure Planet" is a borrowed concept is like saying the sky is blue. Or for that matter saying disney really told original stories. If you look at the early works, it's just a lot of Re-telling of original stories. Do you think the little mermaid or the jungle book were original by walt himself? -rolleyes- No they are retellings in the light of disney's take on them.

Flying pirate ships have been around since ships have been around. I wonder which sailors idea's did everyone really steal the thought of a flying boat from? :p

Then we get into the arguement of Nadia vs Atlantis ;)

Rogue588
11-10-02, 05:07 AM
Originally posted by Jackskeleton
Flying pirate ships have been around since ships have been around. Man I didn't see ANY when I was out there...and there are none on the East Coast. Next time you see one take a picture for me? :DOriginally posted by Jackskeleton
Then we get into the arguement of Nadia vs Atlantis ;) Sigh. Here we go again...:lol:;)

joeydaninja
11-10-02, 09:04 AM
I guess what frustating adnaanks is Disney, which used to be the vanguard of creative ideas and visionary work, has now resorted to mere copying of other ideas without putting any added value, spin or basically making a better film. Which is indeed quite frustrating.

Inverse
11-10-02, 10:02 AM
Yeah, what every happened to the Disney that used to do such unique, totally original concepts as Snow White, Cinderella, and Alice in Wonderland? :)

Jason
11-10-02, 10:07 AM
Originally posted by Jackskeleton
Flying pirate ships have been around since ships have been around. I wonder which sailors idea's did everyone really steal the thought of a flying boat from? :p

Really? I know flying sailing ships are a common theme in japanese anime (Odin) and tokusatsu films (Message from Space), but I've never heard of them being a mythological theme elsewhere.

Originally posted by Jackskeleton
Then we get into the arguement of Nadia vs Atlantis ;)

What argument? In several places it's a shot for shot copy.

LBPound
11-10-02, 10:49 AM
Posted by the wise DVD Talker named little fuzzy on 10/27:

Originally posted by littlefuzzy
Hmm, I wonder when people are going to start saying that Treasure Planet was ripped off from a futuristic pirate or western anime, like Galaxy Express 999, or Lost Universe, etc., etc., etc. :D

My prediction was a couple of weeks, so this was pretty much on the money. :D

Tesiae
11-10-02, 10:50 AM
Originally posted by Jason
Really? I know flying sailing ships are a common theme in japanese anime (Odin) and tokusatsu films (Message from Space), but I've never heard of them being a mythological theme elsewhere.

Leave it to an otaku to say that anime is the exclusive source of flying ships mythology. :)


What argument? In several places it's a shot for shot copy.

Next thing you're going to tell me is that Requiem for a Dream is ripoff of Perfect Blue. :)

joeydaninja
11-10-02, 10:56 AM
Originally posted by Tesiae
Leave it to an otaku to say that anime is the exclusive source of flying ships mythology. :)


[b]

Next thing you're going to tell me is that Requiem for a Dream is ripoff of Perfect Blue. :)

There is a difference between homage, and outright copying. :)

PixyJunket
11-10-02, 10:58 AM
If I made the comment I wanted to.. I'd end up [BANNED]

-wink-

Inverse
11-10-02, 01:00 PM
Flying sailing ships go back at least to the Adventures of Baron Munchausen -- and I'm not talking about the 1989 movie, I'm talking about the book. It was published in 1793. There's also a Russian folktale called the Fool and the Flying Ship, which goes back to at least 1916.

Otaku are often quick to claim that Western pop culture is constantly stealing from some obscure anime, but the same otaku are generally ignorant of where the anime creators nicked the ideas in the first place. In 9 of 10 of these "plagerism" cases, the anime was borrowing ideas from Western pop culture in the first place.

Next up: Why "The Two Towers" is a complete and total ripoff of Dragon Quest!

Tesiae
11-10-02, 01:16 PM
Inverse: Aye... many otaku still won't discuss what has influenced Cowboy Bebop.. perish the thought!

Goldberg74
11-10-02, 03:27 PM
Oh really, I thought Disney's last original story was The Lion King... ;)

BabiG
11-10-02, 04:45 PM
I believe reading that Treasure Planet has been in the works (at least the story stage) since the early 90's...

Jepthah
11-10-02, 06:48 PM
You don't have to even accuse Disney of being plaigarists to witness the decline of quality of their animated films (and no, Pixar's movies don't count). That's enough to keep me away.

Mr. Cornell
11-10-02, 07:34 PM
Skies of Arcadia was a good game, but to claim that Disney stole the idea from that game is patently absurd. First off you would need to claim that there have never been flying pirate ships in any media form before Skies of Arcadia, which is stupid, and then second off you would have to claim that the 18th century sailing ships with rocket engines in Treasure Planet look a lot like the flying ships in Skies of Arcadia, which they don't. Therefore, you lose. Thanks for amusing me for about 30 seconds though. ;)

Tesiae
11-10-02, 07:49 PM
Dar, that goshblasted Disney dun stole the idear frum the Saucy Mare captaine by the Crimson Binome hisself. Dar!


Incidentally, he's from Reboot.

Jason
11-10-02, 09:23 PM
Originally posted by Inverse
Flying sailing ships go back at least to the Adventures of Baron Munchausen -- and I'm not talking about the 1989 movie, I'm talking about the book. It was published in 1793. There's also a Russian folktale called the Fool and the Flying Ship, which goes back to at least 1916.

Otaku are often quick to claim that Western pop culture is constantly stealing from some obscure anime, but the same otaku are generally ignorant of where the anime creators nicked the ideas in the first place. In 9 of 10 of these "plagerism" cases, the anime was borrowing ideas from Western pop culture in the first place.


Cool. I'm not familiar with the Munchausen stories, and havn't heard too many (any) Russian folktales. I only mentioned the japanese things because that's the only place I've ever seen flying ships, and because of disney's history with "borrowing" rather heavily from them from time to time.

It does look visually interesting, but the characters look pretty much like stock disney bozos, and the comic relief ones especially get on my nerves pretty quick.

BTW, it this a musical, like traditional disney animated films, or are they getting away from that?

Calculon
11-10-02, 09:55 PM
Anyone else find it ironic that the corporation most responsible for America's regressive copyright laws is itself constantly embroiled in plagarism scandals?

This one is not near as blatant as Lion King or Atlantis, however.

Burnt Alive
11-10-02, 10:32 PM
Flying ships: Peter Pan, Munchausen, Little Nemo In Slumberland (early 1900's comic strip), Non-Stop New York (1937 movie)

I also beleive there are legends in Norse, Greek and Middle Eastern mythology about flying ships, and I vaugely recall a few early 1900's animated shorts featuring them.

Rogue588
11-11-02, 01:09 AM
Originally posted by Mr. Cornell
Skies of Arcadia was a good game, but to claim that Disney stole the idea from that game is patently absurd. First off you would need to claim that there have never been flying pirate ships in any media form before Skies of Arcadia, which is stupid, and then second off you would have to claim that the 18th century sailing ships with rocket engines in Treasure Planet look a lot like the flying ships in Skies of Arcadia, which they don't. Therefore, you lose. Thanks for amusing me for about 30 seconds though. ;) Wow. You didn't even give him 3 minutes. :DOriginally posted by Calculon
Anyone else find it ironic that the corporation most responsible for America's regressive copyright laws is itself constantly embroiled in plagarism scandals? I wouldn't necessarily call one thread on DVDTalk a scandal [No offense Geoff. ;)] I don't know why, but this whole thread makes me think of Hooper's "Marco "f'n" Polo" speech from Chasing Amy. A Miramax film which is a Disney company! And you know what THAT means... ;) [Reprinted below for your convenience. But substitute sex with cinema. :D] "All the boys need to feel like they're Marco Fu***ng Polo when it comes to sex - like they’re the only ones who’ve ever explored new territory. And it’s hard not to let them believe it. I let my boys run with it for awhile - feed them some of that "I’ve never done this before..." bs, and let ‘em labor under the delusion that they rockin’ my world, until I can’t stand them anymore. Then I hit ‘em with the truth. It’s a sick game. The world would be a better place if people would just accept that there’s nothing new under the sun, and everything you can do with a person has probably been done long before you got there."

mookiemeister
11-11-02, 01:21 AM
Originally posted by Inverse
Yeah, what every happened to the Disney that used to do such unique, totally original concepts as Snow White, Cinderella, and Alice in Wonderland? :)

None of those three Disney cartoons are totally original. Snow White and Cinderella were stories originally published by Grimm Brothers, and Alice in Wonderland by Lewis Carroll.

BabiG
11-11-02, 01:43 AM
Someone fell into the sarchasm...

mookiemeister
11-11-02, 02:08 AM
Originally posted by BabiG
Someone fell into the sarchasm...

Shoot. I missed that smiley. ;)

Rogue588
11-11-02, 02:11 AM
Originally posted by BabiG
Someone fell into the sarchasm... rotfl

Dr. DVD
11-11-02, 09:49 AM
The concept of the movie has me interested, but I fear that if I go and see the movie it will be along the lines of Titan A.E. and Atlantis; all visuals with shallow script and predictable story. I realize the same could be said for many other movies, but with animated films, especially those from Disney, I expect a little more in terms of characters.
I thought both of the films above were solid to a point, but overall they left me disappointed. I doubt a space aged version of Treasure Island will do any different.

Hokeyboy
11-11-02, 01:26 PM
It's all one big doo sandwich, and we all gotta take a bite!

Iron_Giant
11-11-02, 04:15 PM
I have always that it is funny that Disney will use public domain books/stories to base they movie on, but they keep pushing congress to pass laws to keep all of their charters/stories out of public domain.

<b>From what I hear some of the earlier Disney stuff is going to become public domain in the next year or two.</b>