fujishig

Got my new PSM this weekend (when Next Gen mag died, they started sending me this instead). It's a decent mag... though you can usually get stuff online much faster, they seem to be pretty current, and somehow they have reviews of some games much earlier than websites. Last month they reviewed .hack (which was delayed) and this month they have Shinobi, along with Ratchet and Clank.

R and C got a 9. But what was really surprising to me was that Shinobi got a 6! And where some of the bigger games get two page reviews, it was shoehorned into 1/3 of the page, with one screenshot. This is a game that was hyped on the cover just a couple of months ago. Feature article and everything.

They said controlling the character is a blast, but the levels are pretty boring. Now I realize that reviews are only one person's opinion, but this really took my enthusiasm for this game down a couple of notches. Now I'm actually glad I couldn't preorder it from amazon with the deal...

BTW, two things I find curious about Playstation Magazine. One is that they offered to renew my subscription for two years for 25 bucks. The little flier that comes with the mag offers two years for 20 bucks. Why would renewal be more? The other thing is that one of the blockbuster ads has a coupon for rent one game, get one free. The only thing is that it expires on 10/31.

Aghama

After watching the E3 demo of Shinobi, I couldn't see what people were getting excited about. I'm skeptical about how much I'll like R&C after how unimpressed I was with Jak & Daxter.

remjim

That saddens me.

I was looking forward to this. If only I still had my Genesis and copy of Shadow Dancer.

Josh H

I didn't have very high hopes for this game. Aside from their sports games, none of Sega's recent efforts (DC and current systems) have impressed me.

darkside

I have to agree about recent games and I'm a big fan of Sega. HOD III, Crazy Taxi III, and Gungrave all disapointed me. I ended up selling NFL 2K3 to get Madden. NBA 2K3 grew on me once I played the superior Xbox version and Beach Spikers was very good. Other than that Sega has really left me unhappy.

Toe Jam and Earl got bad reviews and now Shinobi is looking mediocre. What the heck happened to Sega? Panzer Dragoon had better live up to expectations.

tha_dvd_man

I don't think it's right to simplify it down to "Sega games suck now". There are many, many different development teams under the Sega publisher, and the developers of TJ&E3 and the developers of Panzer Dragoon Saga and the developers of NFL2K3 and the developers of Crazy Taxi 3 and the developers of VF4 all really have nothing to do with each other.

RichC2

Sega has so many "sub" companies now, it's not surprising that they're churning up crap.

That being said, there's nothing particularly wrong with the games you have listed - their biggest flaws seem to be the lack of innovation from previous titles. HOD 3 and Crazy Taxi III were just more refined versions of their former selves, Gungrave is old school, though I agree - it was largely disappointing.

Shinobi never looked all that great to me, from the previews and what not. It got - 7.5/7.5/7.0 in EGM, one commenting that the level design was nothing new, and another commenting the game was just really damn hard.

TJ&E III is almost dead on 3d recreation of the original title, some of the rapping is pretty weak (okay and annoying.) but it does a good job recreating the old game, and for that I commend it.

It just seems - as of late - Sega has been going back to their old faithful titles, unfortunately, they've done little to amp them up.

Here's to hoping the best for future titles, however.

superboyreturns

I don't trust reviews. I'll have to play the games myself to determine whether or not i like them. Even if a game i was looking forward to gets high scores, i still rent it.

Ralph Wiggum

This game looks like Devil May Cry in different clothes to me.

DMC, while well done, didn't hold my interest for very long.

darkside

I never said "Sega games suck now". I said I've been disapointed with the majority of their recent releases. To say their games suck would be putting them in the category with Acclaim or 3DO which would be unfair.

Blaiming the developers for titles not being good is a weak excuse. Its up to Sega to make sure their developers are puting out quailty titles. Its not impossible either. Nintendo had a lot of imput into Retro's work on Metroid and made them cancel other projects to focus on it and get it right. When a game like Gungrave, or GunValkrye, or whatever comes out and is mediocre it looks bad on Sega not the developer.

DVDHO

EGM gave this game some good reveiws 7.5 and 8 out of 10,they say its really hard,like throwing things hard.

spainlinx0

I find it disappointing that Sega leaves the hardware business to focus on games, and now their games don't seem to have the same polish as the old days.

Outlaw

I was semi looking forward to this game, the ability to do combos and such looked kinda cool, i still will rent it to see what it is like.

I hope F-Zero turns is in good hands ...

jeffdsmith

No worries there. Nintendo will not let it out the door until it's right.

darkside

I think this is a drawback to being a multi console publisher. When a company like Sega or Nintendo is only making games for their own consoles they can focus on perfecting games for that system. With Sega doing stuff for Xbox, Gamecube, and PS2 I think it increases the time needed to program a proper game and games are probably being released before fully ready. Programers may be moving from doing an Xbox title to a PS2 title and on to a GameCube title. This has to be tough to do.

I've also heard the complaint that this slide in quality dates back to the Dreamcast. Games like Sonic Adventure 2, Ecco the Dolphin, and Zombie Revenge to name a few were not given the highest praise by gamers.

Sega may have just lost some of their magic. Granted they have put out some good stuff. Jet Set Radio Future and Sega GT 2002 for example were well done games, but just not received that well by the public.

Hopefully, Panzer Dragoon will rocket them back to the top.

Aghama

See: Star Fox Adventures

Josh H

Star Fox Adventures isn't really a good comparison. It was really just a Rare game that Nintendo let them use their characters for, rather than a new game in a Nintendo series being handled by another company, ala Sega and F-Zero or Namco and Star Fox Armada.

I'm sure they'll hold them to pretty high standards.

Plus, SFA was reasonably well reviewed so that weakens the point further.

jeffdsmith

The game was reviewed well. It is a good game. The average of reviews put it right about 8.2 overall, not bad at all...So I'm not sure If I can see a point here.

It may not have been a steller title living up to other games Nintendo releases in house, but I direct you back to my original post you commented on. (Note: I edited "not" in, as I had forgot to type it somehow) I didn't say "perfect" or "great" I said right. I suppose that can be interpreted any number of ways. I simpley meant, at worst "good". Sorry.

I think the quality of the game (SFA) has a lot to do with Rare's planned departure at that point. I have serious doubts if Rare was putting their all into a title when they knew that the sooner they got done with the sooner they could move on.

I think an example of what I expect from Nintendo would be Silicon Knights with Eternal Darkness. SK had a great story, but apparently lacked all the gameplay elements needed, and Nintendo stepped in to "assist" in the title. The title was delayed, improved, and finally released as a great game. Maybe I'm just to much of a dreamer, but this is what I expect Nintendo to do to protect their franchises.

darkside

Metroid Prime is another example of Nintendo stepping in. Retro had real trouble with it early in development and Nintendo got them back on track.

To give Sega a little credit they did delay Panzer Dragoon Orta. I think they realize how important it is to get this title right.

Josh H

That's a good point.

Also, I wonder if they're just not as motivated. When they had their own system, they not only needed games that were good enough to sell themselves, but games good enough to get people to buy their hardware to play them.

Of course, the lackluster (IMO) Sega offerings on the dreamcast don't support that idea.

Perhaps they just lost their tough, and/or a lot of the talent left and went to other companies?

Captain Harlock

I'm still curious to play Shinobi. It's more from a nostalgia point of view I confiess. But I'm also one of those people who has to find out for themselves. When somebody reviews a game it's their opinion. And everyone's opinion is different.

I'll reserve judgement till I get my grubby little mits on a copy.

jeffdsmith

movies

Lastblade

You mean games like NFL2K series, NBA 2K series, NHL2K2, F355, Daytona, Samba De Amigo, Space Channel 5, Jet Set Radio, etc... Perhaps you don't like these games but I would hardly call them lackluster.

fujishig

That's true.

Sega Sports in particular really impressed me. It was probably the edge in hardware, but they really took the crown from EA in basketball, football, and hockey for a few years at least, and now they seem pretty much neck and neck. Really a kick in the mouth to a major developer who pretty much declined to release games on their system.

Jet Grind Radio is a great game, but a niche game. It did seem to start this whole cell-shaded obsession, though. And I was disappointed with a few titles that I thought for sure would be surefire hits, like Ecco. But Virtua Fighter still chugs on, and Shenmue is heralded as well. Sonic Adventures 2 was also a decent game, but the system was already dead by then.

Probably the biggest blow to Sega is the death of the local arcade. Many of their biggest hits for Genesis came straight from the arcade. And besides Shenmue, I don't think Yu Suzuki's worked on much lately.

Josh H

I mentioned above that the sega sports games were awesome, the others you mentioned sucked IMO and were not big hits.

Sega's pretty much just a second fiddle sports game pubisher (though personally I prefer their games to EA) and a niche market publisher with titles like Samba De Amigo, Jet Set Radio, etc. that are cult games loved by a few but selling poorly overall.