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Old 10-03-02, 09:40 AM
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Microsoft 1 Mod-Chip distributors 0

http://news.com.com/2100-1040-960594.html

Microsoft zaps Xbox-hacking chipmaker

By David Becker
Staff Writer, CNET News.com
October 3, 2002, 5:05 AM PT

Microsoft appears to have shut down one of the world's largest distributors of "mod chips"--gray-market add-ons that allow Microsoft's Xbox and other video game consoles to play pirated games.
A representative in Microsoft's Australian subsidiary confirmed that the company has taken legal action against Hong Kong-based Lik Sang.

Lik Sang's Web site has been offline for nearly two weeks, with a notice on the site blaming a server outage.

Lik Sang representatives could not be reached for comment, and Microsoft attorneys were unavailable to explain the exact nature of the legal action.

Lik Sang was one of the top worldwide retailers of mod chips, devices that, once soldered to a game console's main circuit board, disable security components. The chips typically allow a game machine to play legally and illegally copied discs, run unauthorized software and play game discs intended for other geographic regions.

Hackers have latched on to mod chips as a conduit for running homemade software on the Xbox, leading to development of programs such as an Xbox version of the Linux operating system.

Lik Sang offered a variety of mod chips for the Xbox and Sony's PlayStation 2, along with game consoles with mod chips already installed by Lik Sang technicians. The company went into the manufacturing side of the mod chip business last August when it acquired OpenXbox, a mod chip design intended to allow upgrades.

Though mod chips have bothered the video game business for years, Microsoft has been particularly zealous in fighting them. The company reconfigured the Xbox's innards partly to deter hackers and has sought to hire a mod chip expert.
Old 10-03-02, 09:44 AM
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The land of Mod Chips, I mean Hong Kong, will strike back....
Old 10-03-02, 09:45 AM
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Not going to stop anyone from making mods.
Old 10-03-02, 09:59 AM
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I'm all for any thing that slows down piracy. Mod chips should be cracked down even harder by MS, because X-box owners don't have the excuse of wanting to play import japanese games.
Old 10-03-02, 10:18 AM
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Originally posted by Josh Hinkle
I'm all for any thing that slows down piracy. Mod chips should be cracked down even harder by MS, because X-box owners don't have the excuse of wanting to play import japanese games.
I would say there are a few games that come out in Japan first. Tekki (Steel Battallion here in the US) came out there before it does here.
Old 10-03-02, 10:23 AM
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But Nintendo owners do right? Come on man, use your brain. Your post has no relevance aside from creating argument. Mod Chips give the consumer options with their systems they wouldn't have otherwise had. Running Linux on a Microsoft system is a great example of a valid reason for them. I'd love to see that, as would others I'm sure. Flay, keep up the good reporting.
Old 10-03-02, 10:38 AM
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I'm all for mod chips. all my systems are modded except my PS2 and it will be modded (or i'll just buy a japanese system) as I play alot fo import games, especially for the gamecube and dreamcast. I don't have an xbox yet but when I do get one, it will probably be modded so I can play any Japanese games that are exlusive or released earlier than the US.
Old 10-03-02, 10:39 AM
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Originally posted by AgtFox
I would say there are a few games that come out in Japan first. Tekki (Steel Battallion here in the US) came out there before it does here.
True, but there's not many. Plus, the fact that the games come out here first weakens the excuse.

With the PS2 for example, theres a lot of games that never get ported over to the US, so mod chip users have a slighty more non-piracy reasoning for modding their console.

Basically the only non-piracy reasoning an X-box owner has for modding the X-box is to be able to play a few games a couple of months sooner. And that's not a very compelling reason to justify something that is used in the vast majority of cases for piracy.

Personally, I don't buy the PS2 excuse either. Modchips are always going to be used for piracy in the majority of cases. Most gamers couldn't care less about japanese only games they can't play, and tons of gamers like the idea of renting or borrowing a game and burning a copy.

Sure the people that actually just want to play imports lose out if there's a major crack down on mod chips, but I say tough. For one if the companies wanted you to be able to play imports, they wouldn't have intentionally made the systems not play them. If they want to play japanese games, the can buy a japanese system, or write letters/petitions to get game released over here.

IMO piracy is just too big of an issue to not try to crack down on modchips simply because a minority of people use them to play imports.

End off topic rant.
Old 10-03-02, 10:45 AM
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Originally posted by spankyj
But Nintendo owners do right?
I'm not sure what the hell you're getting at. I'm 100% against mod chips in any shape or form on ANY console. The vast majority of people use them to illegally play pirated games. That does too much harm to be justified by the minority of people that use them play imports (which is something the console maker doesn't want you to do or they would have allowed the system to play them out of the box) or the even smaller minority of tech geeks that want to run linux on the X-box or turn it into a cheap computer.

Last edited by Josh Hinkle; 10-03-02 at 12:44 PM.
Old 10-03-02, 10:49 AM
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I'm torn. I feel the same way Josh does about the pirating, but I have found a nice loophole in buying damaged discs and playing backups (legal since I own the disc).

Either way, life will go on for me.
Old 10-03-02, 11:10 AM
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I find it very funny that Sony made it very difficult for US PS2's to play Japanese ORIGINAL games, but copied cds very easy.

I don't get that at all. It is almost as if Sony is turning a blind eye to piracy. And don't kid yourself, in places where piracy is RAMPANT (Hong Kong for example), PS/PS2 probably outsold GC/Xbox by a factor of tens of thousands to one. I am not kidding. I have talked to people in HK and they have never even heard of an xbox... and GC? LOL, they don't care.

The reason is that they can get cheap/copied games on PS2 for like 4 for $10. Maybe less. So yah, maybe Sony sold 500 billion consoles worldwide, alot of them don't generate a dime in software profit.
Old 10-03-02, 11:13 AM
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It's pretty funny when I see posts on the newsgroups like: "I won't buy an Xbox until I can play backups on them. Are you listening, Microsoft?" Uh, yeah, Microsoft really wants to take a loss and sell a console to somebody who will never buy software for it.
Old 10-03-02, 02:27 PM
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Though i'm against piracy, its too bad that lik-sang is down, i have heard they were a pretty good import store. I never bought any mod chips from them but they sold some good 3rd party stuff like dance mats, maraccas, tons of imported stuff. Also pre-installed afterburner GBA's and lots of odds and ends kind of things. Still, I'd agree that 95% of people who get mod-chips get them to play bootlegs. Ever since that enigmah modchip was released, X-Box piracy has gone through the roof, which hurts people who want to play legit imported copies. but its a good move to stop people who want to play illegal boots.
Old 10-03-02, 03:00 PM
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While I'm against piracy as an ethical practice, I'm not one to think that it hurts the industry to the degree that everyone is crying foul. People pirate because they can, not as a replacement. It's cool to some to think that they're playing the game for free when in reality, if a method of piracy never existed, they probably wouldn't play it at all. I don't see how you can claim a loss when you never would have got the money to begin with. Sure I know and understand all the arguments, but this multi-billion loss a year is crazy and unrealistic.

I for one do support mod chips for their legal purposes, and there are some for all systems usually. Having a PS2 modded lets you play imports and legit betas if you have access to them. Having a modified XBox lets you do all sorts of things that are legal. Playing games off the hard drive, using Linux, playing media files, emulating games you own all on one box for easy access, imports, legit betas, and so forth.

Just because mod chips can be used for illegal purposes, I don't think it's right to come down on those who support them for legal usage. The mod chip itself is legal unless using code that was ripped off from the company. It's their usage that should be looked at, not the chip itself. Given how first party companies look at importing anyways, I'd say nothing changes for people who use the chip for legit reasons. It doesn't make it any more difficult or hurtful to those who use them for legal reasons.
Old 10-03-02, 03:41 PM
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Couldn't they make a "legit" mod chip that doesn't let you play back ups but does let you play imports?
Old 10-03-02, 04:14 PM
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I don't care if 99.9% of the people with mod chips use them to pirate games, the mod chips should not be illegal.
Old 10-03-02, 04:20 PM
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GameCube has a boot disc that lets you play imports and it doesn't work with burns (of course I don't know that anyone is making there own GC mini-DVDs). There is no need for a mod chip.

How many Xbox games are territory locked anyway?

Like it or don't like, but MS is right about this issue. If playing imports is so important to you, buy a Japanese Xbox.

Piracy sucks and just creates higher prices for those of us that don't cheat.
Old 10-03-02, 06:53 PM
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Originally posted by Darknight
. People pirate because they can, not as a replacement. It's cool to some to think that they're playing the game for free when in reality, if a method of piracy never existed, they probably wouldn't play it at all.
I just don't think that's true at all. Most people that pirate, likely do it to save money. Sure some people are going to just burn games they wouldn't have bought, but many do it exclusively. They just buy a system, mod it and then burn all the games they want instead of buying them.

It's like the lame MP3 argument you here that "people just download mp3's of songs they wouldn't pay for." That's balooney. It's true in some cases, but not in the majority.

The majority are just people that would rather get something for free than pay for it.
Old 10-03-02, 06:54 PM
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Originally posted by darkside

Like it or don't like, but MS is right about this issue. If playing imports is so important to you, buy a Japanese Xbox.

Piracy sucks and just creates higher prices for those of us that don't cheat.
Exactly, I couldn't have said it better myself.
Old 10-03-02, 06:56 PM
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I don't care about the xbox mod chips, but I'm pissed the site got closed down, because they sold a lot of cool console-related stuff you can't really get anywhere else.
Old 10-03-02, 06:58 PM
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That sucks - I'm all for mod chips. I'm going to be taking my PSX to a local game shop soon to get a mod chip installed, so that I can play my imported Resident Evil Director's Cut 2-disc, and eventually Snatcher and Dracula X. Sorry, but I'm not going to buy another console just so I can play those three games.
Also, I will NOT be using it for piracy. I own over 30 PSX games, and have more on my list that I will eventually buy.
Old 10-03-02, 07:03 PM
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Originally posted by Aghama
I don't care if 99.9% of the people with mod chips use them to pirate games, the mod chips should not be illegal.

Question: if the consoles dropped regional coding of games and even DVDs, would you still be against the banning of mod chips? Xbox doesn't have a keyboard for Linux, and the PS2 lets you get Linux legally.
Old 10-03-02, 07:04 PM
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Josh: You're wrong there, it's true for the most part that a majority of the games pirated would never have been purchased to begin with. People who pirate tend to pirate anything that they can, not just the things they would actually buy. Sure people do it to save money, but that's a drop in the bucket compared to the total figure that the industry is passing around as the total loss per year. Piracy DOES NOT cause higher prices on software like you're lead to believe. If that was the case, games would cost more than $49.99 and game prices would be going up per generation, not down. When you factor in inflation and heck even just the pure cost of a game, overall prices have come down. Before the $9.99 games, the average price for a PlayStation game was between $34.99 and $39.99 during the height of the system life. We're just now starting to see the savings passed on to the consumer in this generation as more and more games begin to retail at $39.99 instead of $49.99. This wouldn't be the case if piracy was causing game prices to be higher. When you break down the cost to develop a game, you'll see where all the money goes around. If piracy didn't exist, you can bet that the price of games still would be where they are at.

Piracy causing higher priced software is just as much BS as the figure thrown around to how much the industry loses ever year. These are all exagerated.

Darkside: All XBox games are territory locked. And MS does have a right to go after Lik-Sang, but mod chips are not illegal unless there is code contained in that chip that has been used illegally. The act of piracy gained by using the chip is illegal, not the chip itself. There is a significant distinction between the two. You as an owner of the system are free to do whatever you want with it including modifying it. There is nothing illegal about that.
Old 10-03-02, 07:17 PM
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Originally posted by Darknight
Josh: You're wrong there, it's true for the most part that a majority of the games pirated would never have been purchased to begin with. People who pirate tend to pirate anything that they can, not just the things they would actually buy.
I never said people pirated only the games they would buy. They pirate the games they would buy and games they wouldn't. The companies are still getting screwed out of money for the games the piraters would have bought. And that alone is enough to crack down on mod chips. It doesn't matter if the majority of games people pirate are ones they wouldn't have bought. A significant amount of them are games they would have bought. After all people are more interested in playing good games than crappy ones.

It sucks that people who use the legitimately have to suffer, but that's life.

Originally posted by Gallant Pig

Question: if the consoles dropped regional coding of games and even DVDs, would you still be against the banning of mod chips?

I've always wondered why console makers didn't just drop the regional lock outs. This would render mod chips pretty much useless for anything other than playing imports, and they'd have no reason not to crack down on them.

The whole linux argument is just lame. How many people are big enough geeks to want to run linux on their video game system? Certainly not enough to make anyone think twice about cracking down on mod chips.
Old 10-03-02, 07:33 PM
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Josh: Make up your mind, at what point does something make it worth it and something does it. First you say because piracy outweighs legit users it's bad, but now you say that the minority of piracy that includes games people would have bought otherwise outweights the majority of piracy which is stuff people wouldn't have bought regardless. If you can pull that the minority of piraters is the more important, then you certainly cannot dismiss the minority of legit users.

And again how do legitimate people suffer? As you said the majority of games that people would likely buy if they didn't pirate are the good games and typically those are the ones that sell really well and make a huge profit. Again how does it ultimately hurt legit users or even raise prices?

The reason territory lock outs exists are for a number of reasons. First to get an accurate depiction of what the market is made of. Then there is the bigger issue of license rights, and making sure the right parties get the money they deserve.

Also your comment about Linux doesn't hold water since obviously there is a market there that Sony has already capitalized on in the form of the Linux kit. So no, it's not completely lame. Mod chip users make up a really small percentage of the overall user base. So in reality you're talking about the minority no matter what you look at and the option of Linux is certainly a valid argument. If there wasn't an interest there, it wouldn't be done.

The problem you have is you equate to mod chip being illegal and bad when it's the act you should be worrying about. Piracy will happen one way or another. Anyone who thinks it can be gotten rid of is naive. However, let's not completely dismiss the legal use of mod chips and how some people can take advantage of those uses.

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