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View Full Version : Jeremy Shockey: I wouldn't stand for gay teammates


immortal_zeus
09-27-02, 05:16 PM
http://espn.go.com/nfl/news/2002/0927/1437486.html

New York Giants rookie Jeremy Shockey apologized for comments about gays made two weeks ago during an appearance on Howard Stern's radio show.

During the Sept. 10 interview, Stern asked Shockey if he thought there were any gay players in the NFL.

"I don't know,'' Shockey said. "I don't like to think about that. I hope not.''

The star tight end also was asked if he had any gay teammates at the University of Miami.

"No. I mean, if I knew there was a gay guy on my college football team, I probably wouldn't, you know, stand for it. You know, I think, you know, they're going to be in the shower with us and stuff, so I don't think that's gonna work."

On Thursday, Shockey apologized for his comments, saying he was trying to be funny and it wasn't his intention to offend anyone.

"It's a show just for comedy," Shockey told the Daily News. "I guess I do regret saying it. I didn't think anyone was going to make a big deal out of it. I'm not prejudiced against anybody's beliefs or what they do in their off time. I do regret saying something like that. Whatever I did to offend people, I apologize.

"I'm not prejudiced in any way."

Cyd Zeigler, the president of Outsports.com, a Web site for gay sports fans and athletes that published the partial transcript, said he didn't believe Shockey's explanation.

"Having heard the tape and heard the tone in which he said it, I don't believe that," Zeigler told the newspaper. "There was not an ounce of joking in it. How is what he said funny? Someone who doesn't believe those things doesn't say those things. Someone who doesn't have a problem with gays doesn't say, 'I hope there are none in the NFL.' If I'm a gay player on his team, I just took another step back into the closet."

The Giants apparently were not happy with Shockey's decision to appear on the Stern show, and the team's vice president of communications Pat Hanlon said the tight end's views don't reflect those of the organization, and he believes Shockey is sorry for the comments.

"It wasn't funny," Hanlon told the Daily News. "If Jeremy Shockey tells me it was a poor attempt at humor, I believe him. "But let's put his comments in perspective. It's Howard Stern. It's not '60 Minutes.' It's not a forum for the sociological issues of our time."

With his apology, Shockey added that in his opinion the environment of Stern's show didn't help matters.

"It's Howard Stern. He sets you up in bad situations. I'll know next time."

======================

I guess it's a good thing he doesn't play for the Mets. :p

Seriously, this article is a perfect segue for something that I've wanted to post here for a long time, but didn't want to because I didn't know if the mods would allow it.

I'm sure there has to be a bunch of gay players in professional sports. I'm not sure what percentage of the total human population is homosexual, but the odds are that a good number of professional athletes are homosexual. Not that there's anything wrong with that. Seriously.

I don't want this thread to turn into a "bashing" type of thread, but I hope we can maturely (in an adult sense of the word...not in a Mature Forum sense) discuss this issue.

Hell, I've even told my best friend that I wouldn't be surprised if Marshall Faulk was gay...just a hunch. And before you think I'm gay bashing, I will say it once and again, Marshall Faulk is my favorite player in the league. Probably my favorite NFL player ever. It wouldn't matter to me whether or not he's gay...or anybody else for that matter. (So if I don't care if anybody's gay, why do I want to discuss it? I guess because it seems like such a taboo subject that I think it merits some kind of discussion).

And for the record, no, I'm not gay.

http://www.ameritech.net/users/dvdtalk/rome.gif

LurkerDan
09-27-02, 05:23 PM
Originally posted by immortal_zeus
And for the record, no, I'm not gay.Not that there's anything wrong with that.

Seriously, it's a touchy subject. Athlete's are forced into such a male, macho environment that I imagine they harbor a high percentage of homphobes. Yet, surely, there are stars of professional sports who are gay. And, sadly, must remain in the closet.

I honestly think that people being forced to keep quiet about something that we keep saying "Not that there's anything wrong with that" about is very distressing. It doesn't help us as a society, and it is sad for them.

grrrah
09-27-02, 05:36 PM
anyone that has 'Blue Oyster' gifs readily available, you gotta wonder about. ;)

immortal_zeus
09-27-02, 05:36 PM
Originally posted by LurkerDan
Not that there's anything wrong with that.

Seriously, it's a touchy subject. Athlete's are forced into such a male, macho environment that I imagine they harbor a high percentage of homphobes. Yet, surely, there are stars of professional sports who are gay. And, sadly, must remain in the closet.

I honestly think that people being forced to keep quiet about something that we keep saying "Not that there's anything wrong with that" about is very distressing. It doesn't help us as a society, and it is sad for them.

I totally agree with you.

Let me bring up a hypothetical situation. Say a really big star comes out and says that he's gay. Do you think his teammates would really shun him? I mean, what if Marshall Faulk (since I brought up his name earlier...and remember this is a <b>hypothetical</b> situation) comes out and says he's gay? He's arguably the best player in the NFL (though he hasn't had a chance to show it this year). Do you think others would follow suit after such a huge star came out? Do you think his playing career would suffer due to homophobic teammates, homophobic coaches, media sensationalism, etc.?


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immortal_zeus
09-27-02, 05:38 PM
Originally posted by grrrah
anyone that has 'Blue Oyster' gifs readily available, you gotta wonder about. ;)

Takes one to know one. :p Besides, you understood the "Blue Oyster" reference, so what does that make you? :p:lol:

By the way, I definitely think you'd be an idiot to ditch a date to go to the gym. But then again, you asked out Keyser. :p

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Flashback
09-27-02, 05:56 PM
Originally posted by immortal_zeus
I totally agree with you.

Let me bring up a hypothetical situation. Say a really big star comes out and says that he's gay. Do you think his teammates would really shun him? I mean, what if Marshall Faulk (since I brought up his name earlier...and remember this is a <b>hypothetical</b> situation) comes out and says he's gay? He's arguably the best player in the NFL (though he hasn't had a chance to show it this year). Do you think others would follow suit after such a huge star came out? Do you think his playing career would suffer due to homophobic teammates, homophobic coaches, media sensationalism, etc.?


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I think so. No matter how great a player is I am sure there will be people in the league, and his team, that would definitely stay away from him. Not even counting the edorsements he would lose in the future, well he might get some alternative ones, and the death threats from the public who are homophobic. It's a shame really but that's the way it is. That's why you rarely here about pro sport figures coming out. Damn! Look what happened when their was just a thought of a Met being gay.

sexy_overlord
09-27-02, 08:41 PM
He won't stand for them, but will he bend over? ;)

clemente
09-27-02, 10:08 PM
If a superstar athelete came out, I think a majority of his teammates would support him, but yes, there'd be people on his team and organization that wouldn't be so "friendly" with him anymore. Same goes for the general populace.

But it wouldn't be the same for the smaller athelete who's team success isn't nearly so tied into his individual success. Would Rams fans and teammates really care if Faulk was gay and he was still running for 150 yards a game? But if Joe 2nd string Placekicker on a different team, came out because of faulk, I imagine his situation would be completely different.....and it'd be discriminatory to drop him....but I imagine he'd lose his job next training camp.

Sports are completely about machismo....both from the players and fans perspective, and unless it was a star franchise player, it wouldn't be a very positive experience.

But it hasn't been too bad for Mike Piazza.

Bushdog
09-27-02, 10:13 PM
First gay "star" that comes out is going to be a very rich man. Damn, if I were a borderline star, straight guy, I might just pretend, for all the endorsements.:D

and, as an aside, do you think there are any lesbians in women's pro sports?

Josh H
09-27-02, 10:48 PM
Martina Navartalova (sp?) She still plays some professional tennis.

immortal_zeus
09-28-02, 12:28 AM
Originally posted by Bushdog
First gay "star" that comes out is going to be a very rich man. Damn, if I were a borderline star, straight guy, I might just pretend, for all the endorsements.:D

:confused: Why? I don't see Elton John on any commercials advertising pianos or anything. In fact, I can't think of any "outed" celebrities who are currently spokespersons for some major brand. Also, I doubt Nike, Reebok, Champion, Adidas, etc., would have a gay athlete endorse their product solely because he was gay. In fact, I would probably guess that they <i>wouldn't</i> want a gay athlete endorsing their product because of the machismo factor in sports that has already been mentioned. If anything, maybe a smaller, independent label would have that athlete endorse their product...but that brand would have to be satisfied that their niche is the "homosexual market" because in all likelihood, heterosexuals wouldn't buy that product. Of course, if the athlete was a HUGE star (no pun intended), then things might be different.

For example, let's say Curtis Martin (:p) comes out and says he's gay. Let's say Adidas wants Curtis Martin to endorse their product after he comes out. First, he would have to determine if they're trying to use his homosexuality to endorse their product....or if they want him to endorse it because he's one of the best backs in the league. Sure, he's one of the best running backs in the league and is widely respected, but how many adolescent boys do you think would buy Adidas after it has been associated with a homosexual? Sadly, probably not many. You know how everybody is at that age.

On the other hand, let's say Shaquille O'Neal says he's gay. And Adidas wants to endorse him (let's forget about his current contract with any other shoe company, if any). Adolescents might be more willing to brandish Adidas apparel because Shaq is a bigger and more recognizable star. Still, it would probably hurt Adidas' sales overall.

The only way an outed athlete would get rich from endorsements, in my opinion, would be from smaller, independent companies. But like I said, those companies would have to be satisfied in just serving the homosexual market, because I doubt many male heterosexuals would be "big" enough to wear a brand associated with homosexuals. Maybe I'm wrong, but I thinkthat would be the case.

Originally posted by Bushdog
and, as an aside, do you think there are any lesbians in women's pro sports?

Yes. I heard or read somewhere that a number of WNBA players are gay (a very high percentage, in fact...but less than 50%, I think). I think I got the percentage from another player's estimates. In fact, I think there's one player who is openly gay, but I can't remember her name or what team she's on. Well, we know what team she plays for, but not her professional team. :p (Sorry, I just had to say that, cause I know somebody else would have).

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J-Dubya
09-28-02, 05:55 AM
An ESPN magazine article quoted a WNBA player the it would be easier to count the straight players than the gay players in the league.

veritas
09-28-02, 07:36 AM
Um, why would a straight male *not* have a problem showering with a gay man? Hardly a question of homophobia as much as sexual dynamics.

Out of curiosity, anyone know if male reporters are allowed into locker rooms following WNBA games?

evenflow
09-28-02, 09:31 AM
Originally posted by J-Dubya
An ESPN magazine article quoted a WNBA player the it would be easier to count the straight players than the gay players in the league.

Wow, that's REALLY surprising... :p

POWERBOMB
09-28-02, 10:45 AM
Would a straight guy be allowed in the shower area with the teams' cheerleaders? Prolly not, because there would be all sorts of sexual harassment issues. So why are gay players allowed in the showers with straight players?

So this guy says he wouldn't stand for gay players. So what? That's just how he feels. Are we suppossed to bash him just because he feels uncomfortable around gay men? I wouldn't want to be in that situation either. The last place anyone should have to be politically correct is in a sports locker room area. Gays should have their own shower area or seperate shower time.

It's time to stop having to second guess ourselves around gays. If they don't like it they can leave. I guess I'm just tired of always having to walk around the issues all day long only for the media and some small organizations to get on this guys case just because he said what he felt at the time. If you don't like the answer, don't ask the question.

Toad
09-28-02, 01:49 PM
What do these pro-gay organizations want? They want straight men to like and accept gay men in close quarters such as a shower? That doesn't make sense, and no, it doesn't mean that the straight athletes hate the gay athletes -- it just means they'd feel uncomfortable. We should be more worried about protecting BOTH sides' interests -- not just one.

I don't know what the answer is. Certainly not separate showers for "gays" and "straights" because then we'll have equal rights activists creating a bigger storm. It's a tough situation.

It still doesn't change my mind that whether or not Shockey hates gays, it's still his right to say whatever he wants about them, as long as he's not threatening them. This Cyd guy at outsports.com needs to get over it. Shockey has a right to hope that there's no gay players in the NFL, just as gay players in the NFL have a right to hope that all straight players will accept them.

Groucho
09-28-02, 02:11 PM
As a straight man, I'm secure enough in my sexuality that I'd shower with gay teammates in a sports situation.

POWERBOMB
09-28-02, 02:54 PM
As a straight man, I'm secure enough in my sexuality and my relationship with my GF to shower with cheerleaders in any situation. :D

eXcentris
09-28-02, 06:24 PM
Odd comment from someone who plays the "gayest" position on the team. :)

clemente
09-28-02, 10:22 PM
Tightend rotfl

Anywho, someone did bring up a great point, what do these organizations hope to accomplish? Really, Shockey won't be cut/dropped, Shockey won't change his mind about how he feels, the Giants will say "bad Shockey" and that's it.

However, I think Shockey's just an idiot.

sexy_overlord
09-28-02, 10:43 PM
Originally posted by clemente
Tightend rotfl

Anywho, someone did bring up a great point, what do these organizations hope to accomplish? Really, Shockey won't be cut/dropped, Shockey won't change his mind about how he feels, the Giants will say "bad Shockey" and that's it.

However, I think Shockey's just an idiot.

Every sport needs its John Rocker.

POWERBOMB
09-29-02, 12:03 AM
I don't think it's anywhere near J. Rocker territory.

sexy_overlord
09-29-02, 12:06 AM
Originally posted by POWERBOMB
I don't think it's anywhere near J. Rocker territory.

Me neither, but plenty of people are going to hate his guts for awhile over this.

POWERBOMB
09-29-02, 12:18 AM
I doubt it. The media here hasn't even touched this "story" and unless he backs it up with video of him beating up his kid in a parking lot this won't even make the 1st 20 pages of Sports Illustrated.

Borst
09-29-02, 12:18 AM
I find it funny they call him a star tight end, he has only played in 3 NFL games and has decent stats but no way I'd call him a star. He seems very c0cky for a rookie and everyone hypeing him up is only going to make his head get bigger, soon he will be another Keyshawn

Thrush
09-29-02, 01:34 AM
Originally posted by immortal_zeus

Hell, I've even told my best friend that I wouldn't be surprised if Marshall Faulk was gay...just a hunch.

My money is on Jeff Garcia.

bhk
09-29-02, 10:35 AM
I'm secure enough in my marriage that I should be allowed into the showers of the Dallas Cowboy Cheerleaders.

immortal_zeus
09-29-02, 03:37 PM
Originally posted by Thrush
My money is on Jeff Garcia.

Yeah, I've told people that I thought Garcia was homosexual too. It doesn't help that he plays for San Francisco.

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POWERBOMB
09-29-02, 10:00 PM
Yeah, right, bhk.

sexy_overlord
09-29-02, 10:12 PM
Originally posted by immortal_zeus
Yeah, I've told people that I thought Garcia was homosexual too. It doesn't help that he plays for San Francisco.

http://www.ameritech.net/users/dvdtalk/rome.gif

So you're saying he doesn't exactly "play for the right team"?

slymer
09-29-02, 10:42 PM
Originally posted by Thrush
My money is on Jeff Garcia.
My money is on Ricky Williams. I have no problems with homosexuals in the NFL, but I also have no problem with what Jeremy Shockey said. It was pretty ****in funny! People have almost become too sensitive!

evenflow
09-29-02, 11:35 PM
My money is on Terry Glenn. "She"

Dead
09-30-02, 12:11 PM
Originally posted by Thrush
My money is on Jeff Garcia.


Yup, mine too.

Red Dog
09-30-02, 12:19 PM
Kordell Stewart

immortal_zeus
09-30-02, 03:18 PM
:lol: This has turned into a "guess which professional athlete is gay" thread. :lol: It's supposed to be a discussion. :p

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Tsar Chasm
09-30-02, 03:38 PM
I'm surprised that this hasn't been mentioned yet but there was an episode of Arli$$ last season that covered this topic pretty well. I've only seen the show once so I can't comment on its quality.

That a persons sexuality should ever be a question is a sad commentary indeed.

How many of these pro athletes beat their spouses? How many of these pro athletes use illegal drugs on a regular basis? How many of these athletes have extra-marital affairs?

I think we should watch athletes perform their sport and just ignore anything they have to say. They are being payed to play, not to talk.

They are NOT role-models. They are entertainers.

immortal_zeus
09-30-02, 04:09 PM
Athletes ARE role models. Whether they like it or not.

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Tsar Chasm
09-30-02, 04:10 PM
Originally posted by immortal_zeus
Athletes ARE role models. Whether they like it or not.

http://www.ameritech.net/users/dvdtalk/rome.gif

Not in my family :)

POWERBOMB
09-30-02, 10:19 PM
BTW, are you guys betting money on which player is gay or which player you'd like to have gay relations with? -eek-

immortal_zeus
10-11-02, 09:11 PM
Well, I guess my favorite player isn't as gay as I thought. I read on another forum that he's dating Bonnie-Jill Laflin. I don't know if it's true or not (I couldn't find any corroborating evidence), but the guy seemed to know what he was talking about. Then again, it's an internet forum, so it's just as likely that the guy was as ignorant as some of you fools in here. :D:p

http://www.bonnie-jill.com/images/glam/17.jpg

http://www.bonnie-jill.com/images/glam/6.jpg

http://www.bonnie-jill.com/images/glam/20.jpg

Yeah Marshall! You go boy! :up::up:

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Bushdog
10-11-02, 09:22 PM
*cough*it's a cover*cough*

immortal_zeus
10-11-02, 09:32 PM
Nice cover!

At least it's not as obvious as Liza Minelli's hubby. :p

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Bushdog
10-11-02, 09:48 PM
Actually, I hear she just thinks he's a great boyfriend really. She doesn't feel threatened around him. He likes to shop with her as well, play dress up, put on makeup. . .;)