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Mario Sunshine review on IGN / discussion

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Mario Sunshine review on IGN / discussion

Old 08-23-02, 12:25 AM
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Mario Sunshine review on IGN

Presentation 6.0
Graphics 8.0
Sound 7.0
Gameplay 9.0
Lasting Appeal 9.0

Overall 9.4
Old 08-23-02, 12:41 AM
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Interesting that a 6,7,8,9 & 9 average to a 9.4
Old 08-23-02, 12:42 AM
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What exactly does presentation include and why did they score it so low in that category?
Old 08-23-02, 12:58 AM
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Here are some of the comments on presentation:

"The combination of poor FMVs, zero story value, poor character design, and a "vacation" theme is rather a shocker. The focus was clearly on gameplay only."

"I am quite disappointed by the vacation theme and Nintendo's stubborness to pay attention to presentation. The story and character design especially is poorly executed. I think Nintendo finds making Peach into a total ditz and Mario into a fat goon amusing, but it feels pretty lame for those of us with some intelligence. If Nintendo truly didn't care about the story, then it shouldn't have even bothered to offer up the poorly done, compressed FMV sequences."

They do go on to rave about the gameplay and how perfect it is, but still only give it a 9.0. The overall of 9.4 is rather confusing, as well, considering the fact that none of the individual scores were that high.
Old 08-23-02, 01:00 AM
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Originally posted by Blake
Interesting that a 6,7,8,9 & 9 average to a 9.4
IGN doesn't average their scores. The overall score is essentially how fun the game is to play.
Old 08-23-02, 01:21 AM
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I read the review and they did rave about it...sometimes. They were criticial, complaining there wasn't enough nostalgia etc. But they said flat out if you loved Mario 64, you'll love this one. So that was enough for me.

I am disappointed they didn't give it higher scores...seems like the first Mario game on any new console is flawless.
Old 08-23-02, 01:53 AM
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Originally posted by Mike_AA
I read the review and they did rave about it...sometimes. They were criticial, complaining there wasn't enough nostalgia etc.
Critical? They are critics.

Here's another quote to chew on:

Mario Sunshine is simply the most entertaining and well-done 3D platformer we've ever played. It's not perfect by any means, but fun-factor rules all, and by our gauge Nintendo delivers up one of its best games in years.
Old 08-23-02, 02:22 AM
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people still go to IGN?
Old 08-23-02, 02:23 AM
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Originally posted by Mike_AA
I am disappointed they didn't give it higher scores...seems like the first Mario game on any new console is flawless.
From past experience, IGN Cube is THE most critical and toughest reviewer online and even tough compared to offline (with the exception of EGM which is pretty hard too sometimes), to the point where it drives people nuts .

A 9.4 from IGNcube is like a 12.4 on other sites .

Getting back on topic, the game must be very good, I don't know too much about the game but the 27th isn't coming fast enough!
Old 08-23-02, 02:23 AM
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Yeah I understand they're critics. I was simply stating they were critical over the game. Fair enough.

It sounded like they wanted to praise it, but had to mention its flaws at the same time. Still, it sounds like the best game, or one of the best, for the GC so far.
Old 08-23-02, 08:55 AM
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IGN doesn't average their scores. The overall score is essentially how fun the game is to play.
Then why bother having scores? Sound like they are making it up as they go along.

This is a review proof game, anyone who is a Mario fan is going to get it the first day its available anyway.

What is shocking in the previews/reviews is how it doesn't blow your socks off. Sounds like they could easily have had this game ready at launch. Another huge mistake by Nintendo.

Something tells me we will be playing the next Mario game on PS3.

Doug
Old 08-23-02, 09:11 AM
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What is shocking in the previews/reviews is how it doesn't blow your socks off. Sounds like they could easily have had this game ready at launch. Another huge mistake by Nintendo.
Graphics aren't everything my friend. Gameplay is what's most important and that takes time to perfect. BTW, in Nintendo's case, perfect is definitely the right word.
Old 08-23-02, 09:22 AM
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Originally posted by Doug Schiller

What is shocking in the previews/reviews is how it doesn't blow your socks off. Sounds like they could easily have had this game ready at launch. Another huge mistake by Nintendo.

Something tells me we will be playing the next Mario game on PS3.
You must be reading different reviews than the rest of us, everyone loves the game so far. The camera sucks, the graphics are a mixed bag, the sound is forgettable, the game is great. The rest of your comments are wild conjecture.

Last edited by Aghama; 08-23-02 at 09:24 AM.
Old 08-23-02, 09:29 AM
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Itsa me, MARIO. Itsa timea to cleana de streets. (sound exciting) He-heeeeeeeeeee
Old 08-23-02, 09:34 AM
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I have no doubt the game is a AAA title. It just sounds like they could have easily produced it to be ready at launch. How many years has the Cube been in production and it isn't a huge leap in gameplay from Mario64 (which is a good thing).

I'm just pointing out the very clear road Nintendo is going down towards it hardware downfall.

Dated controller scheme (big A button?), dated memory block system, proprietary format, no Mario game at launch.

I expected the extra year needed would have blown the socks off the reviewers but I'm seeing, if you like Mario64, you'll like it. They didn't say "if you liked Super Mario World, you'll sort of like Mario 64".

Here is my point, it sounds like they spent zero time on presentation, FMV, plot, etc. If that is true and all they worried about was gameplay, were was this game a year ago? They would have crushed the competition.

Doug
Old 08-23-02, 10:32 AM
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Originally posted by Doug Schiller

Dated controller scheme (big A button?), dated memory block system, proprietary format, no Mario game at launch.
I think the GCN controller is perfect, especially the big A button. With the exception of fighters, most every game uses one button a lot more than the others, so it makes perfect sense. I've yet to play a game on the GCN where the controller gave me any problems.

I'll give you the memory card. It sucks. It's the reason I got NCAA 2003 on the PS2 instead of the GCN.

The propriety format is a huge plus. The discs at 1.5 GB have plenty of space for almost every game, and developers can go multidisc ala Resident Evil when necessary. Most of all, it kills pirating. They can't be burnt in a simple DVD burner, it would take a special burner to do the encryption. So this means piracy is really limited to Hong Kong. You won't see people renting GCN games at Blockbuster and burning them.

It would have been great to have Mario at launch, but it simply wasn't ready. Plus it's a great time for it, and the other big games coming to the GCN this fall as it looks like this holiday season will decide whether MS or Nintendo moves into second place in the console war.


Originally posted by Doug Schiller

Here is my point, it sounds like they spent zero time on presentation, FMV, plot, etc. If that is true and all they worried about was gameplay, were was this game a year ago? They would have crushed the competition.
Doug
Presentation, story, etc mean nothing in a platformer. I've never played one that had any of these things. Mario, Sonic, Spyro, Crash, Rayman, etc. have all been gameplay only more or less, with some lame excuse for a story tacked on.

So it is true that they only worried about Gameplay. Miyamoto is a very thorough game maker. He has to have everything perfect. That's why the game wasn't ready last year, and why Zelda isn't ready this year. It takes them time to get the gameplay perfect. Anyway, as I said above, hopefully Mario and the other big games coming out this fall will still allow them to "crush the competition."
Old 08-23-02, 12:08 PM
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Originally posted by Doug Schiller
Then why bother having scores?
Because many people would like to know whether the graphics and sound are good or not. But a game could be poor in those areas but have great gameplay, or vice versa. That's why ratings are not (and should not be) averaged.
Old 08-23-02, 12:13 PM
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Without getting into everything... they gave it a final score of 9.4 REGARDLESS of its apparent faults. That's pretty damn impressive.
Old 08-23-02, 12:31 PM
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Originally posted by Josh Hinkle

The propriety format is a huge plus. The discs at 1.5 GB have plenty of space for almost every game, and developers can go multidisc ala Resident Evil when necessary. Most of all, it kills pirating. They can't be burnt in a simple DVD burner, it would take a special burner to do the encryption. So this means piracy is really limited to Hong Kong. You won't see people renting GCN games at Blockbuster and burning them.
But Piracy is not a huge issue anymore. It was highly widespread in the Dreamcast Era because it was so easy to do.

The PS2 has been cracked since a little after launch, but piracy is certainly not rampant. The steps you have to take are too lengthy and technical for the majority of gamers. The same goes for the XBox along with needing a DVD burner which are still expensive. Also, Microsoft is switching up security codes in XBox's to make existing mod chips useless.

It seems to me the propriety format doesn't make a huge difference. Piracy isn't as big as it used to be.



As for the IGN score, if it was any character other than Mario, it wouldn't have scored as high IMO. I'm fine with using a score that's not an average, but come on. 1.6 points higher? Lower scores in presentation, graphical quality, and sound have to bring down the score somewhat.
Old 08-23-02, 12:35 PM
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Originally posted by Flay


But Piracy is not a huge issue anymore. It was highly widespread in the Dreamcast Era because it was so easy to do.

The PS2 has been cracked since a little after launch, but piracy is certainly not rampant.
It is on my college campus. People make big bucks selling burnt PS2 games here. And as DVD-R's spread it will only become that much easier.
Old 08-23-02, 12:36 PM
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Originally posted by Flay

But Piracy is not a huge issue anymore. It was highly widespread in the Dreamcast Era because it was so easy to do.
Besides the fact that the PSX was probably the most widely pirated system around, and it beat the crap out of the competition. But piracy will be an issue again once DVD burners become more prevalent. We'll see how protected the GC really is.


As for the IGN score, if it was any character other than Mario, it wouldn't have scored as high IMO. I'm fine with using a score that's not an average, but come on. 1.6 points higher? Lower scores in presentation, graphical quality, and sound have to bring down the score somewhat.
The way they gushed about the game, I think if the graphics and sound were better (who really cares that much about "presentation," anyway), they would have given the game a 9.8-10. The score was brought down by the flaws, but obviously to the IGN and EGM folks it's still an outstanding games.
Old 08-23-02, 12:54 PM
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Piracy is still an issue, even if not a big one. Anyway my point was Nintendo's propriety format is definitely not a downside, and IMO is a plus as it makes piracy that much harder to accomplish.
Old 08-23-02, 01:06 PM
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OK, glad to see we've gone from Sunshine to PS2 piracy.

Anyways, three points:

1) Yes, Mario should always be available the day a Nintendo system is released. Bad move on their part. But frankly, this is a huge title for them, and obviously they didn't want to take any chances screwing it up. Sure, the FMV scenes are weak, the storyline and presentation as well, but when it comes to Mario games, only gameplay and fun factor mean anything. That's the reason we can all go back on the NES and SNES and play our favorite Mario titles....graphics and other things don't come close to rivaling gameplay in a title like this.

2) Speaking of this game's importance, it REALLY seems like the GC is taking a backseat to the XBOX these days. The PS2 is ahead for good, but this is a title Nintendo really needs to sell well to get the GC back in the public eye. While at one minute it seems like I'm hearing about Mario everywhere, it isn't even close to the media/cultural frenzy when Mario 64 came out. I won't say I'm worried for Nintendo, but I definitely don't want this to be a dissapointing seller.

3) And finally, a random thought, is the waterpack a total rip-off or influence from the Rayman series? I like the idea, but I haven't really seen that mentioned; almost seems like people think the waterpack is some ingenius idea.

OH, and does anyone know the memory card space needed for this game? And yes, the memory card's suck...at least the 251 is doable.
Old 08-23-02, 01:12 PM
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Does every thread in this forum have to turn into a "[Console Name] Sux, d00d!" discussion? Might as well close this thread, since nobody pays it any heed.
Old 08-23-02, 01:30 PM
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Originally posted by Mike_AA
2) Speaking of this game's importance, it REALLY seems like the GC is taking a backseat to the XBOX these days. The PS2 is ahead for good, but this is a title Nintendo really needs to sell well to get the GC back in the public eye. While at one minute it seems like I'm hearing about Mario everywhere, it isn't even close to the media/cultural frenzy when Mario 64 came out. I won't say I'm worried for Nintendo, but I definitely don't want this to be a dissapointing seller.
I would say that the GC has itself set up well for the rest of the year. X-Box and PS2 may be better looking going into 2003 from a games perspective, but for the rest of this year it is the Year of the Cube/GBA. Sunshine, StarFox Adventures, Metroid (Prime and Fusion), Zelda (probably 2003), Wario World, etc.

Nintendo is staking it's A-list characters for the holiday season this year (with the realistic exception of Zelda). I have all 3 systems, but the GC has more games I want over PS2 and X-Box games and I will put the GC games ahead of the PS2 and X-Box games I want if I don't have the money for all of them.

OH, and does anyone know the memory card space needed for this game? And yes, the memory card's suck...at least the 251 is doable.
7 blocks...that's it.

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