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View Full Version : will the mets disassemble their team?


twikoff
06-26-02, 10:00 PM
NY media says that if the Mets dont make a big run before the all star break, including several wins in the braves series.. that the mets may start to talk trades and dump payroll

the mets went out and spent a ton of money in the offseason to try and build a championship team..
everyone assumed that the mets were going to breeze through the division..
but it looks like the mets are about to lose a second game in this four game series with the braves (game 4 tomorrow).. which means they will not win this series.. and with a loss tonight, they will be 8 1/2 games out of first

it is expected they will cut their losses and dump payroll..
any projections on which players will be the first to go?

das Monkey
06-26-02, 10:05 PM
I said this two years ago, and it's just as true now. The Mets played much better than their talent when they made it to the Series. They are a team with some fundamental problems that cannot be fixed by just throwing money at them. It's time for some major changes in that franchise, and I'm sure you can guess where the first change should be.

das

twikoff
06-26-02, 10:07 PM
but at least they lead the majors in errors ;)

twikoff
06-26-02, 10:08 PM
Originally posted by das Monkey
and I'm sure you can guess where the first change should be.

das

:lol: valentine!

d÷wntemp÷
06-26-02, 10:16 PM
Aye, not too many Valentine fans anywhere...

DarkElf
06-26-02, 10:59 PM
For starters:

Get rid of Burnitz (I hated them signing him to begin with b/c he sucks) and Big Mo.

Obtain a good young catcher who can actually throw out would be base stealers.

Force Piazza to play 1B with occasional games behind the plate to spell the regular catcher.

Obtain a quality power hitting outfielder to replace Burnitz.

After that, then see what you can do to get a 2nd quality outfielder since Cedeno/Payton/Perez/etc. in the other 2 OF positions sucks.

Shamu
06-27-02, 12:02 AM
The Mets didn't really go out and spend a lot more money in the offseason. They basically traded their 'bad' contracts for similar contracts.

Anyways, Mo Vaughn, Burnitz, and Ordonez are virtually untradeable.

The Mets should rebuild for 2004 or 2005. They should trade Leiter, Trachsel, Estes, Alomar, & Guthrie for prospects.

By trading the above players they should be able to restock the farm system with quality players.

By 2004, Jose Reyes should be ready and he is already one of the top prospects in baseball. While playing in high A ball, he was already mentioned as one of the top 3 SS prospects. He's now in AA and doing well. His fielding is already on par with Ordonez and his batting should be great. Ordonez's contract ends after next season and Reyes should be able to easily replace Ordonez.

Also hopefully Aaron Heilman and Pat Strange should be ready sometime by next year. I'm guessing that one of Strange or Heilman will be in the starting rotation at the start of 2003 since Leiter, Trax, D'Amico, and Estes will be free agents at the end of the season.

I think they'll have to let Piazza stay at catcher because they're not going to be able to get rid of Vaughn. By the time Vaughn is gone (2005) , Piazza will hopefully move to 1B and the Mets will let Justin Huber (catcher in Low A ball right now, putting up astounding numbers) play at catcher. By this time hopefully David Wright (3B, low A) will also be ready.

Hopefully the Mets will realize that they need to rebuild and get younger.

Personally, I don't think Valentine should be fired. I'm amazed with what he's done given these scrubs that Steve Phillips has given him.

twikoff
06-27-02, 06:26 AM
the media does not make it sound like bettering the team will be the #1 reason for the moves.. sounds alot more like giving up on the season and dumping salaries

which of course the yankees will pick up any of the high priced players they dump ;)

zuffy
06-27-02, 07:18 AM
Originally posted by twikoff
the media does not make it sound like bettering the team will be the #1 reason for the moves.. sounds alot more like giving up on the season and dumping salaries

which of course the yankees will pick up any of the high priced players they dump ;)

I can't find anyone worth it for the Yanks to pick up. Maybe the Braves will find some of them useful :p

classicman2
06-27-02, 09:25 AM
Originally posted by Shamu




The Mets should rebuild for 2004 or 2005. They should trade Leiter, Trachsel, Estes, Alomar, & Guthrie for prospects.



Now all you have to do is find a team that will trade and will assume their salaries. ;) Much easier said than done.

AndyCapps
06-27-02, 10:14 AM
How about Leiter to the Cardinals for Mike Matheny and a bag of chips?

twikoff
06-27-02, 10:16 AM
Originally posted by AndyCapps
How about Leiter to the Cardinals for Mike Matheny and a bag of chips?

what brand of chip? ;)

classicman2
06-27-02, 10:34 AM
The Cardinals will jump at that trade.

Leiter's salary: $9,250,000

Matheny's salary: $2,500,000

The Cardinals are attempting to "contract" their payroll.

:)

I'm afraid the Mets are stuck with Mr. Leiter.

AndyCapps
06-27-02, 11:01 AM
Originally posted by classicman2
The Cardinals will jump at that trade.

Leiter's salary: $9,250,000

Matheny's salary: $2,500,000

The Cardinals are attempting to "contract" their payroll.

:)

I'm afraid the Mets are stuck with Mr. Leiter.

I believe the need to pick up a pitcher or two outweighs a small payroll increase. Rick Ankiel may never be ready. I have about as much faith in Travis Smith as I have in Bud Smith right now. Hell, things could be bad enough that Andy Benes may take the mound again soon.

Yes, I said small payroll increase, to which anyone would say $6,750,000 is not a small increase. Depending on how the insurance policy works, I'm assuming it will cover the balance of DK's $5,500,000 salary. So the Cardinals would be out $1,250,000 over their current payroll. Hell, the Mets might chip in for part of that to dump him. From what I'm looking at, Leiter's deal is up after this season. Actually, the way this looks he's making $8,000,000 this year, if that's the case the math would work out perfectly. The Mets would get a low cost defensive catcher through 2004. The Cardinals would fill an immediate need for a 4th or 5th starter.

AndyCapps
06-27-02, 11:03 AM
Originally posted by twikoff


what brand of chip? ;)

They can pick. I'm even willing to go a bag of President's Casino or Casino Queen chips. ;)

twikoff
06-27-02, 11:09 AM
Originally posted by AndyCapps


They can pick. I'm even willing to go a bag of President's Casino or Casino Queen chips. ;)

well.. you know.. with those two pitchers.. the brand of chips is the deciding factor in the trade ;)

classicman2
06-27-02, 11:33 AM
Originally posted by AndyCapps


I believe the need to pick up a pitcher or two outweighs a small payroll increase. Rick Ankiel may never be ready. I have about as much faith in Travis Smith as I have in Bud Smith right now. Hell, things could be bad enough that Andy Benes may take the mound again soon.

Yes, I said small payroll increase, to which anyone would say $6,750,000 is not a small increase. Depending on how the insurance policy works, I'm assuming it will cover the balance of DK's $5,500,000 salary. So the Cardinals would be out $1,250,000 over their current payroll. Hell, the Mets might chip in for part of that to dump him. From what I'm looking at, Leiter's deal is up after this season. Actually, the way this looks he's making $8,000,000 this year, if that's the case the math would work out perfectly. The Mets would get a low cost defensive catcher through 2004. The Cardinals would fill an immediate need for a 4th or 5th starter.

And what do you propose the Cardinals do for a low-cost defensive catcher?

AndyCapps
06-27-02, 11:43 AM
Originally posted by classicman2


And what do you propose the Cardinals do for a low-cost defensive catcher?

They'd still have Mike DiFelice and Eli Marrero. :)

classicman2
06-27-02, 11:46 AM
Originally posted by AndyCapps


They'd still have Mike DiFelice and Eli Marrero. :)

DiFelice is nothing but a back-up catcher.

Marrero is too valuable to stick him behind the plate everyday. He can play a bunch of positions.

LurkerDan
06-27-02, 12:44 PM
Originally posted by AndyCapps
The Cardinals would fill an immediate need for a 4th or 5th starter.
Geez, you have both an inflated viewpoint about the Cards staff and a deflated view of the Mets. Outside of Morris, who is better than Leiter. He'd be the 2nd starter, I'd say...

AndyCapps
06-27-02, 01:18 PM
Originally posted by LurkerDan

Geez, you have both an inflated viewpoint about the Cards staff and a deflated view of the Mets. Outside of Morris, who is better than Leiter. He'd be the 2nd starter, I'd say...

I definitely have a deflated view of the Mets. But I don't have a problem with him being the 2nd starter. :) I was thinking of it more from the viewpoint that the Cardinals already have 4 starters, and need a 5th(just in quantity). Bud Smith is 0-5 this season, so he should be bumped to 5th(where I came up with the 4 slot being open). Simontacchi is 5-1 with a 3.00 ERA. Woody Williams is 5-3 with a 2.26 ERA. Leiter is 7-6 with a 3.06 ERA. The Cardinals current rotation is Morris, Williams, Simontacchi, Smith.

Smith is pitching tonight. If they made the trade today, it would be easy enough to bump Smith's next start by a day to fit Leiter in the 4 slot, and to give him a few days before his first start. So I wasn't really looking at Leiter's spot qualitywise. If he isn't put in the 2nd slot right off, maybe it can be his during the playoffs. :)

qbert
06-27-02, 01:20 PM
:(

i hate you guys :lol:

yes the mets are sucking wind ... but you know what? in the past three seasons, after June 15th, there are only two teams with better records than the mets ....
so what if the two just happen to be the arch-enemies of the mets, the braves and yanks :mad::p

right now, there is no real viable option than to let this team play out - you hafta believe (well you don't hafta do a damm_thing i guess but) that the mets are playing below potential ... so let em play this year out i say.

as for valentine, they could chuck him, but i don't think that's the answer. managers ask players to hit, run and field. i'm sure the mets are listening, but the fact that they're not doing it isn't all bobby v's fault.

bag of chips ... i hate you guys :lol:

classicman2
06-27-02, 02:07 PM
Originally posted by LurkerDan
Outside of Morris, who is better than Leiter. He'd be the 2nd starter, I'd say...

Williams

classicman2
06-27-02, 02:09 PM
Smith has an excuse. It hurts him to try and snap the curve ball.

twikoff
06-27-02, 02:14 PM
Originally posted by qbert

yes the mets are sucking wind ... but you know what? in the past three seasons, after June 15th, there are only two teams with better records than the mets ....
so what if the two just happen to be the arch-enemies of the mets, the braves and yanks :mad::p


:lol:

does that include this season?
btw.. the braves are 18-5 in june ;)

Bust
06-27-02, 02:44 PM
Originally posted by DarkElf

Force Piazza to play 1B with occasional games behind the plate to spell the regular catcher.



Somebody help me out, why does Piazza want to be a catcher so bad, not that there's anything wrong with that, of course.

twikoff
06-27-02, 02:45 PM
Originally posted by Bust


Somebody help me out, why does Piazza want to be a catcher so bad, not that there's anything wrong with that, of course.

well... according to the rumors.. he is a 'catcher' by nature :eek:

Shamu
06-27-02, 03:30 PM
Originally posted by classicman2
I'm afraid the Mets are stuck with Mr. Leiter.

I hope you're joking. Any playoff bound team would love to have Al Leiter on their staff. He's a big game pitcher with playoff experience.

The Cardinals should trade for him, but they actually don't have much to trade. The Cardinals (along with Boston) have the weakest farm system in all of baseball and I believe outside of Jimmy Journell that they probably have no top prospects. Al Leiter should command at least two good prospects+ in a trade. That's the value of a great starter. I can't even believe that some would think that a Matheny for Leiter trade is even possible.

As for Piazza staying at catcher, where else are they going to play him now? He's actually a decent catcher (amazingly durable, calling a game, etc.) and is only horrible at throwing out runners, but Mo Vaughn is at 1B.

twikoff
06-27-02, 08:18 PM
Originally posted by Shamu

but Mo Vaughn is at 1B.

but mo has trouble staying on his feet

Shamu
06-27-02, 10:14 PM
That may be right, but nobody is going to pay him his money to sit on the bench.

Ranger02
06-27-02, 10:19 PM
Mets are going to have a problem.

Piazza doesn't have much time left behind the plate and if he still stays there, he'll just fall apart.

But with Vaugh filling 1B for awhile, Piazza is out of an position. The years of catching did a number to his speed and agility and he isn't athletic enough to play the OF and isn't good enough defensively to play 3B.

Best thing for Piazza is to be traded to an AL team and finish off his years as a DH ala Ellis Burks. Thats the only thing he can do to remain productive and stay healthy probably after this season. I don't think he'll be able to handle 1B.

twikoff
06-29-02, 10:53 AM
i would hate to see what the new york media is saying about the mets now, after lastnights yankees game

twikoff
06-29-02, 04:22 PM
mo vaughn has 4 homeruns in his last 10 at bats
I wonder if he has heard the rumors and is trying to make himself more marketable :lol:

zuffy
06-29-02, 05:48 PM
After this series, the Mets will be themself again - suck :p