joshd2012

PS2.IGN.COM Tekken 4 Import Preview

Is this is only PS2 game out there which is progressive scan?

agrall

I still say, prove it. As we can tell from the whole sled storm flop, the media can't be trusted. Somebody prove that ANY PS2 game is prog. scan, and I'll be impressed.

Mattalos

Besides the fact that it's on the box? I had actually never heard about the PS on Sled Storm until people here mentioned it, but with TK 4 I'd been hearing that for awhile now. Should be interesting!

Brian Shannon

PS2 is not capable of progressive output

"It can be connected via composite, component and S-Video but currently does not output progressive component or any form of HDTV. Rumor has it that the system can be upgraded to progressive component with a software upgrade"

http://www.mikeshea.net/ps2.html

Static Cling

Is that all it would take? A software upgrade?

joshd2012

Well, this game was released in Japan, and I have heard nothing of the sort. There is no point in releasing a game with Progressive Scan if the PS2 do it. I have not heard of any software or hardware (for that matter) upgrade for the PS2 so it has to be able of progressive scan. I wish we had a Sony rep who could confirm or deny any or all of this.

EDIT: Brian - the part you are quoting from is for the DVD Player which has different software than the Gaming System. I believe that the PS2 is progressive scan for video games, but not DVDs. Looks like I'm going to have to pick up some Component Cables soon.

Brian Shannon

Does a PS2 even have component jacks?

Connections
Connector type 2 x game controller ( 9 PIN in line ) ¦ 1 x audio output ( RCA phono x 2 ) ¦ 1 x composite video output ( RCA phono ) ¦ 1 x SPDIF output ( TOS Link ) ¦ 2 x USB ( 4 PIN USB Type A ) ¦ 1 x i.LINK (IEEE 1394) ( 6 PIN FireWire )


http://electronics.cnet.com/electron...7-7932420.html


Sony intends to add much-enhanced progressive scan (525p) output capability to PS2 within the next six months, which will make the console a technology competitor with the very top-end existing DVD-Video players. Using software processing will likewise make distribution of any anticipated upgrades a relatively easy process for PS2 owners.

The down side: You are going to have to wait to get the product here in North America. Sony Computer Entertainment has announced that the product will be available in Fall 2000, with most insiders believing that the U.S. release will occur in September.

http://www.gadgetcentral.com/sonyps2_intro.htm

joshd2012

Yeah. There is an official one by Sony and Monster Cable makes one.

Sony Component A/V

jagernaut

The PS2 does not have internal component out jacks like a DVD player, but you can buy a cable (made by Sony and others) that attaches to the custom PS2 video output at the back of the system and has component output ends to hook up to your tv. I use one myself.

Tekken 4 is the first PS2 game that supports progressive tvs (via component). There is a good chance that other games in the future will also have progressive support. The system does not have progressive dvd support, and i'm not sure it is possible to add this support later.

Brian Shannon

Thank you for the clarification.

This is most curious. the unit does not have component outputs yet it can be made to output video in that manner? What is the method? Is there a flag in the hardware that is set or is it all software (hence emulation) that decides?

joshd2012

It might be possible by releasing a software upgrade. They upgraded the DVD drivers once, couldn't they release a CD which upgraded the DVD Player to Progressive Scan.

On a side note: I can't wait to see other game use Progressive Scan. GT4 would be amazing.

Brian Shannon

Some additional info that I have found

http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htfo...S2+progressive


http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htfo...S2+progressive

jagernaut

I can see how this is confusing if you don't know how videogame consoles work. They all use proprietary cables. The PS2, and all other recent systems, come with composite cables. You cannot use any composite cables you have lying around. The system has a custom video out plug (one piece), and different specialized cables are available where one end matches the custom plug and the other end has composite, svideo, or component outs (3 different cables, composite one is packed in with the system, other 2 must be purchased separately) to hook up to your tv.

For XBOX and Gamecube, i believe that a good number of games support progressive (implemented on a game by game basis), Tekken 4 is the first for PS2.

agrall

Actually, ALL games for the X-Box are progressive scan.

That article above about PS2 and progressive scan was old (2000?) and all speculation...

Gallant Pig

If the game supports 480p, it's going to take a hit performance-wise, just like if it supports DTS. So there will be some tradeoff.

joshd2012

Not true. SSX:Tricky actually performs better than SSX. As long as you can program it right, there won't be hit in performance.

Gallant Pig

Very true. They had a year longer to tweak the code, but they visuals and framerate could have been better without DTS. They use one of the parallel processors to do the DTS, so there will always be a hit. I think SSX Tricky's lackluster graphics and horrible framerate attest to that.

joshd2012

Of course the framerate could have been better without DTS, and it also could have been better if the game was black and white too. The human eye can see 30 fps, anything over that gives you few gains. Not once during SSX does the framerate drop below 35 fps. I don't see how you can say that is horrible frame rate.

As for Tekken 4, I don't think Namco would put out a game with as much following as Tekken 4 without it being the best they can get it.

DigitalBackSpin

OK, I posed the question to my PR contact at Namco US, and his reply was YES the Japanese version of Tekken 4 supports progressive scan.

Also he confirmed for me that while no offical announcement has been made regarding a US release, you can expect it in Q3 2002, and that YES progressive scan would be included in the US release as well.


So that's the word from the fine folks at Namco Hometek Inc.

Mattalos

Why would they even think of taking it out? Wouldn't it be a lot more hassle than just leaving it in?

joshd2012

DigitalBackSpin - did they happen to mention what kind of framerate they were getting. Just curious.

DigitalBackSpin

The PR rep I spoke to wasn't overly forth coming.
Given that he was commenting on a title that hasn't even been offically announced for the US, that's somewhat understandable.

He would only elaborate as far as saying that it ran " Very smoothly" and that it looked "Noticably better than the standard mode". Which I'm assuming means that it clears up the PS2's known trouble with jaggies just like progresive scan mode on Xbox smooths things out nicely. As ar as "very Smoothly" that could mean just about anything as far as frame rate goes.

eagin

From the review on psxextreme.com:

Namco did it once with Tekken Tag Tournament, and they've done it again with Tekken 4; they were able to completely deflicker pretty much the whole image, and implement an effect that comes close to being full screen anti-aliasing. Not only that, but Tekken 4 can also be run with progressive scan 525i, which greatly increases the overall picture quality, and is especially noticeable on larger, more high-definition, TV screens (27'/32' Sony WEGAs, 32' Sony Trinitron XDRs, 43' Toshiba rear-projection HDTV, and etc). This feature pretty much eliminates any noticeable flickering and aliasing when the game is run on a more sophisticated television, and creates a really crisp and clean picture - owners of high definition screens should be pissing their pants by now. The overall look of Tekken 4 is practically perfect. Since Namco ported the software off of PS2 based arcade hardware, System 246, the result came to be quite expected, as Namco has always managed to make their console Tekken titles seem to look better or on par with their arcade counterparts (and it should be mentioned that the PS2 version of Tekken Tag Tournament looked light years better than the arcade version).

http://www.psxextreme.com/scripts/re....asp?revID=137

--
Matthew Eagin

joshd2012

I just want one reviewer to measure the frame rate. I know this is a beautiful game and all, but I wanna hear about the frame rate.

Naan

Maybe I don't remember correctly, but 525i would be an interlaced video mode. Isn't the whole point of progressive scan to be a non-interlaced video mode?

Something here isn't working out right in my head.

-Naan