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MGS2-Sons of Liberty is a really boring movie... [Archive] - DVD Talk Forum
 
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View Full Version : MGS2-Sons of Liberty is a really boring movie...


Trigger
12-31-01, 05:44 AM
What's with this game? I bought it for my friend for xmas because he loved the previous one for PS1... I've been watching him play and I notice that more than half the time he's not even doing anything with the controller. It's all just movies and radio conversations. Totally boring. He's one of the biggest fans of MGS - he's been into it since Nintendo (guess there was a Metal Gear for Nintendo) he says - and even he thinks it kinda lame. The story is pathetic and sloppy and just so convoluted that beyond the fact that it makes no sense, it unravels itself as if its audience is a 5 year old. I also don't think the whole "walk up to the node and press your action button" is very immersive. The player can read the manual for things like "action button" or whatnot. That was something they did in the previous game too - so I guess if nothing else they are keeping it familiar. The puzzles seem pretty easy too. I think that when he actually gets to play the game, it's cool how you have to sneak around and shoot or hide or whatever. If there was more of that and less of the lame movies it would be a better game.

and what is with this Raiden guy? What a leo-tard. We've been playing as him for over 2 hours and have had no more than 5 minutes of actualy game play. Aside from that, he looks like a fairy or an elf from LOTR or some sort of eunich.

Anyway, I'm not impressed and neither is my friend the die-hard Metal Gear fan... We're still going to play (watch) in hopes it will get better. I just don't see what all the fuss is about though. Same goes for the whole Final Fantasy series... The higher the number goes, the less gameplay you get and the more movies you have to sit through. To each his own. I'm sure there will be some backlash, so before you go getting all snippy on me personally - just remember that this was just me stating my opinion about a VIDEO GAME. If you want to share your opposing viewpoint or tell me that the game does indeed get better or perhaps even agree with me, I'd appreciate keeping it to that because I'm not trying to personally insult anyone. :)

darkside
12-31-01, 05:55 AM
I understand what you are saying. To use the RPG example its like comparing Dragon Warrior VII to Final Fantasy X. Dragon Warrior is a great game in the sense that it's an old school game. No movies or fancy graphics, it goes on its gameplay alone. However, Final Fantasy X is a great game because of its total package. I think the visuals, story, movies, and gameplay are incredible, but it really needs all those elements to make it a great game.

Personally I think there is room for both. I enjoy getting into a movie type game like Final Fantasy X or Metal Gear Solid 2 from time to time, but I wouldn't want every game to be like them. Grand Theft Auto 3 has a bit of a being in a movie feel, but it uses very few cut scenes and little dialog to make it that way. It really focuses more on gameplay and I think that is the best way to go.

Trigger
12-31-01, 06:46 AM
Originally posted by darkside
I understand what you are saying. To use the RPG example its like comparing Dragon Warrior VII to Final Fantasy X. Dragon Warrior is a great game in the sense that it's an old school game. No movies or fancy graphics, it goes on its gameplay alone. However, Final Fantasy X is a great game because of its total package. I think the visuals, story, movies, and gameplay are incredible, but it really needs all those elements to make it a great game.

Personally I think there is room for both. I enjoy getting into a movie type game like Final Fantasy X or Metal Gear Solid 2 from time to time, but I wouldn't want every game to be like them. Grand Theft Auto 3 has a bit of a being in a movie feel, but it uses very few cut scenes and little dialog to make it that way. It really focuses more on gameplay and I think that is the best way to go.

Yeah - that's why I mostly play FPS type games - because it feels like you're IN the movie. An interactive action movie. Fun times. Sometimes games with Movies in them are a treat because the movies help push the story along and are great fun to watch because of the stunning beauty or whatever... but sometimes the game developers and programmers think they are Spielberg or something and they want to make more movie than necessary. Way too much movie and explaination and radio communications going on in MGS2 - too much slow down and not enough game. I mean, MGS2 could be a fantastic game if it were completely without movies or radio communications at all... just pure gameplay... the movie would be at the end of the game when you beat it - that's how it should be. That's how it used to be in the old days. :)

Keyser Soze
12-31-01, 11:14 AM
I enjoyed MGS2... been waiting for this title for over 2 years.

-k
###

Yancey
12-31-01, 11:30 AM
How long does it take to complete? I was going to buy it, but I'm thinking it might be more of a rental.

Thunderball
12-31-01, 11:46 AM
I too was highly disappointed in MGS2, so much so, that I sold my copy to Keyser.

quietsoul
12-31-01, 12:10 PM
i've been hooked on FFX since i got it, and while the cutscenes can be a bit tedious at times, i'm thorougly enjoying it. it's a great game -- and there's no questioning that for me.

as for MGS2, i was a little disappointed with the lack of gameplay. visuals and movies aside, it's a stunning game. but, there is a lot of dialogue and sometimes, i want to sneak around and such.

tygloalex
12-31-01, 12:19 PM
I,too, am a little disappointed in mgs2.

Adboy151
12-31-01, 12:30 PM
Originally posted by Yancey
How long does it take to complete? I was going to buy it, but I'm thinking it might be more of a rental.

Depending on your ability it should be around 10 - 20 hrs...

G. Noel Gross
12-31-01, 12:36 PM
I found that Grand Theft Auto III took all the wind out of my MGS2 sails. I still haven't gotten used to the controls. I stagger around like I'm drunk a quarter of the time, and the other 3/4ths is taken up by those radio convos, cinematic cuts and the game stopping down to show me threats. MGS2 is the REASON I bought a PS2 in the first place -- just in anticipation of its release. What a let down.

tygloalex
12-31-01, 01:19 PM
Originally posted by Adboy151


Depending on your ability it should be around 10 - 20 hrs...

btw, I'm 35 hours into ffx and half way down.

Michael T Hudson
12-31-01, 01:33 PM
I am with you guys on this one. It amazes me it made so many game of the year lists. I finished Payne on the XBOX and stated MGS2 and it is just not that much fun to me. Oh well I paid 36 bucks for it I could probably make that back on EBAY. :)

kornfreak
12-31-01, 05:37 PM
I think the movies were definetly overboar I do think it still earned tho awards, but would have gotten more if about have of that movie stuff was turned into gaming. I am sad to say that forthe entire month of decomber I have probly only played the game about 2 hours. Just worked on getting dog tags. I got a code breaker recently, so it is gting alot better. Butthe dam thing freezes. Still nice though. thre chears for konami.

hip hip -----
hip hip -----
hip hip -----

Trigger
01-28-02, 07:13 PM
Sorry to resurrect this thread, but we finished this game the other night and I have to comment again. God what a lame game. Can I even call it a game? The ending is the dumbest thing I've ever seen. It was like a really bad Anime the way it tried to get all deep and philosophical. It took us this long because we essentially had given up on it because it was more of a movie than a game and then one night we were so bored we decided to just finish it. Pleh. I guess I should ask if there's anyone that really liked it or got something out of it... and perhaps explain why. Cuz I just don't understand. My roommates, both Metal Gear fans from way back, both thought it was lame. Not trying to pick a fight, but I just don't understand this game's popularity.

Aghama
01-28-02, 07:17 PM
Originally posted by Trigger
Sorry to resurrect this thread, but we finished this game the other night and I have to comment again. God what a lame game. Can I even call it a game? The ending is the dumbest thing I've ever seen. It was like a really bad Anime the way it tried to get all deep and philosophical. It took us this long because we essentially had given up on it because it was more of a movie than a game and then one night we were so bored we decided to just finish it. Pleh. I guess I should ask if there's anyone that really liked it or got something out of it... and perhaps explain why. Cuz I just don't understand. My roommates, both Metal Gear fans from way back, both thought it was lame. Not trying to pick a fight, but I just don't understand this game's popularity.
I'm on the same page as you. I at least got a sort of MST3K kick out of it...bomb disposal *snicker*.

Outlaw
01-28-02, 07:53 PM
I thought this game was awesome, but I don't really feel I need to explain why......I just like it. I pretty much agree with what darkside said, somtimes I feel like a game with lots of gameplay and sometimes its nice to get the cinematic flow. I agree it does go a overboard with movies but with all the complaints they must have recieved don't think they'll do something like that again. Shenmue II is probably the current king of having the most cutscenes though.

The actual gameplay is pretty tight, there tons of moves and techniques to use, most of which were explained in the demo and not the real game (not sure why), like using the adult girly magazines to distract enemies ;), or shooting the enemy's radios from afar to stop them from calling for backup. On my second time through to get all the easter eggs I actually skipped all the movies, I probably wouldn't play it through it again though. To each his own I suppose, if you don't like it there's no point to keep complaining about it because we got the point the first time. :D

huh?
01-28-02, 08:18 PM
i don't know, i had a completely different reaction to this game. i saw my friend play it and i thought it looked like one of the coolest games out there. seemed like there was a lot of different things you could do, and different ways to accomplish the same goals.... seems awsome to me....

now bring it to gamecube!!! :)

tygloalex
01-28-02, 10:40 PM
I didn't like it. I bought a ps2 for it and ended up playing ffx and gta3 and thps3 more.

Gromit
01-29-02, 10:25 AM
I agree about the story. It was just soooooo stupid. I love reading posts on IGN where kids try to act like they are so intellectual. "You just don't get it!!" and what not. No kid, it's just lame.

But, I did enjoy the game. I think it took me 20 hours + to finish it. I would have preferred that the whole game just be more of the tanker episode. I don't need a mind blowing experience, just let me sneak around taking out guards and playing with high-tech military toys, OK?

FFX has a lot of cut scenes as well, but I have almost 50 hours in that game and I think I'm 75% through it.

So, while they have their faults, something about 'em is compelling to me.

BrinStar
01-29-02, 04:59 PM
Its ok.

MGS has always been a spy movie with gameplay in the middle.
You want non-stop action MGS style, then go get the VR Missions. No story there at all.

The story is weak, but I had fun over anylising it. And I like how its setup for MGS:3. 3 will be beter.


As for the game play itself, it was MUCH better than MGS1. You could actualy AIM the guns. And the enemys are smart now.

You want to play that game and have alot of gameply? Then play it on the toughest hardness. You don't even get a damn gun untill you've spent 10 hours dieing.

Also its easy enough to skip all the radio chatter, you dont HAVE to listen to it.


There are afew nice easter eggs too. Like shooting Snake, or Birds, or things like that. "RAAWWWK Top of Locker RAAAWWK"




FFX will always be the longer game tho, its an RPG not a Spy Movie.


I also beat MGS2 in 3hours and 30 min on easy.

Tuan Jim
01-29-02, 09:39 PM
http://www.penny-arcade.com/images/2001/20011130l.gif

Incidentally, I haven't played that much of it yet, just when I went by my friends house, but even so, I wasn't particularly impressed by the gameplay itself. Halo was soooooooo much more immersive IMO. That was an experience. Maybe if I had more time, if I ever get around to playing it again, I might enjoy it a little more, but from what I did play -- thumbs down.

Tuan Jim

Aghama
01-29-02, 10:11 PM
Originally posted by Outlaw
I agree it does go a overboard with movies but with all the complaints they must have recieved don't think they'll do something like that again.
I doubt it, the original MGS had the exact same issues and look what we got.

BrinStar
01-30-02, 12:25 AM
The first metal gear was a fricking work of Art.

Metal Gear Solid had one of the biggest folowing of any videogame in its time.


And MGS and Halo are two totaly difrent types of games.
Thats like saying "Pancakes are ok, but they got nothing compared to a Ford Mustang"

Trigger
01-30-02, 01:13 AM
Originally posted by BrinStar
And MGS and Halo are two totaly difrent types of games.
Thats like saying "Pancakes are ok, but they got nothing compared to a Ford Mustang"

I own a Ford Mustang and I've eaten pancakes and I've also played Halo and MGS. I can tell you that Halo and MGS have alot more in common with each other than pancakes and Ford Mustangs do... :)


edited to add the "smiley face" which I meant to put there in the first place... here's another one... :)

Jackskeleton
01-30-02, 01:23 AM
Originally posted by Trigger


I own a Ford Mustang and I've eaten pancakes and I've also played Halo and MGS. I can tell you that Halo and MGS have alot more in common with each other than pancakes and Ford Mustangs do...


Trigger, You didn't like MGS2 fine, I couldn't give a donkey's ass. I enjoy the game so far. I dislike halo, yet I love CS, Doom, Quake, ghost recon, etc. I really don't feel like fighting your ideas anymore. you want to bitch about a game fine. go ahead, knock yourself out, I know you get that kick with the fighting.

if you don't want your copy of MGS2 then I'm sure you can give it to one of these fine folks here who like it.

Trigger
01-30-02, 01:51 AM
Originally posted by Jackskeleton



Trigger, You didn't like MGS2 fine, I couldn't give a donkey's ass. I enjoy the game so far. I dislike halo, yet I love CS, Doom, Quake, ghost recon, etc. I really don't feel like fighting your ideas anymore. you want to bitch about a game fine. go ahead, knock yourself out, I know you get that kick with the fighting.

if you don't want your copy of MGS2 then I'm sure you can give it to one of these fine folks here who like it.
First of all you need to calm down. I never said anything to you and I don't know why you think you're fighting my anything. I posted this thread to seek out like-minded people who also felt that the latest Metal Gear game was lacking. It's common practice at DVDTalk to start discussions and gather and share opinions. I don't believe I ever started or picked a fight about this. I also don't own a copy of Metal Gear - it's my roommates. Anyway - I don't know where this hostility is coming from, but perhaps you should just get up and take a break from the computer for awhile before you get yourself into trouble.

namja
01-30-02, 02:20 AM
Mod Note:

First, let me start with Trigger: There are better ways of saying that a game is not very good without using the words "lame" or "pathetic" ... and just because you put "I'm not trying to personally insult anyone" doesn't mean that this thread won't be offensive because many people get very defensive to the games that they enjoy. In addition, criticism is best served when you are careful with your choice of words.

And Jackskeleton: There is no need for a hostile response. Just because someone posts using less than best words to describe a product you see as great doesn't give you the right to take free shots at that person.


Edit:

Anyway, let's keep this thread more civil from here one. Thanks for the cooperation.

Trigger
01-30-02, 02:53 AM
ibtl

I'm sorry if the words "lame" and "pathetic" aren't "good words" to use. Next time I'll bust out with a thesaurus before giving my opinion about a game. I don't see how I deserve to be reprimanded since I haven't really done anything that anyone else hasn't on a daily basis. I also don't see how it's necessary to zing me again in your reprimanding of Jack. So I guess from now on I'll keep my negative opinions to myself since this forum is all about saying nice happy thoughts. Anyway - I'm sorry if this thread has caused trouble - what I saw was a bunch of people agreeing with me that the game fell short of their expectations and perhaps a few who disagreed (which was welcome and fine with me)... I didn't think it was a useless discussion, but you're the mod. Again - I'm sorry.

Gallant Pig
01-30-02, 03:06 AM
Since this thread is still open... I put a couple of cents in here.... Here's my take. Trigger extensively watched the game and played it, along with talking to his friend about it. His opinion is a valid one. He doesn't call the game pathetic, he calls the story pathetic. He actually calls the game "boring" (and "lame"), which could be construed as a valid criticism of the game depending on what you look for in a game. He also posted a disclaimer at the beginning:

If you want to share your opposing viewpoint or tell me that the game does indeed get better or perhaps even agree with me, I'd appreciate keeping it to that because I'm not trying to personally insult anyone.

Although, I think Namja has a strong point, the wording (used to describe the game) could have been better, and the post tiptoes the line of "critique" and "flamebait". But honestly, this sort of harsh language is what I have come to expect from Trigger, like it or not, and he is entitled to his opinion. I didn't like his opinion of Requiem for a Dream, but dang it was cool when he actually went out and did a perfect blue capture to show where a scene from the film was derived from.

Next time just tone it down a little Trigger. :)

Trigger
01-30-02, 03:23 AM
GP - Thanks - You've got it pegged fairly accurately there... "lame" is the language me and my friend used to describe the game to each other. I know everyone has at one time or another referred to something as being lame. I wish you didn't feel like you had to expect harsh language from me. I think I keep my demeanor pretty neutral for the most part. I guess I've always just been pretty blunt about things and I like to express my opinions. For some reason, I tend to stand out among others who say essentially the same things. I've been trying to keep my comments on this forum constructive for the most part and I maintain quite a few informative threads as well as contribute a great deal of information (I think) to this forum. Sometimes I'll just see a movie or play a game or something that I really feel strongly about and I like to think of this place as somewhere I can voice my opinion and have others voice theirs as well (whether it's to agree or disagree). I don't try to call someone out and get personal about opinions (I may have in the past, but that's long behind me). All I was asking was the same respect. I have even been posting disclaimers with my negative opinions about movies or games so people know that I'm not trying to pick a fight. It's obvious that my opinions are quite often unpopular, but I don't think that makes them any less valid. In any case, I wasn't trying to pick a fight and I'm sorry this discussion turned into this. I don't think Jack should've gotten on my case because I wasn't even addressing him - and I wasn't even trying to say that everyone who likes MGS2 is stupid... I was just saying that I didn't like it and I wanted to know how other people felt about it. I mean - it's such a popular game and it was popular even before it came out - I just wanted to know if anyone was as let down as I was. Even Penny-Arcade.com thought likewise. :) So I guess what I'm saying is - I don't want anyone to take anything I say personally because I don't get personal with my posts. If I occasionally say something that offends you, please feel free to let me know in a civil manner so I can adjust my comments or at least clarify what I meant because I assure you that no matter how offended you are - I never intended to offend anyone.

So - accept my humble apologies if I've offended anyone with my comments about Metal Gear Solid 2... No offense intended. :)

namja
01-30-02, 05:55 AM
Thanks Gallant Pig and Trigger (and Jackskeleton as I'm sure you're willing to cooperate as well).

Gallant Pig
01-30-02, 11:43 AM
Namja, thanks for leaving this thread open and stepping in before things got out of hand. :up:

Jackskeleton
01-30-02, 05:42 PM
Ok, now a more passive comment.

Trigger, You seem to post a lot about what you hate. As we have had our little tiff's before, I notice that your response to threads is always against the views of who ever is posting in it. Many of your reviews stated things sucked without me ever really noticing you enjoyed anything. So thats why when I read the thread it was like, "oh what is trigger posting now to get some stir reaction"

Now I tend to agree with you on the fact about raidon, its Metal gear solid and your hero is Solid snake, so why then spend so much time as Raiden? it does seem very pointless if you ask me, and I agree with you on that factor. let us play as the character of the game and the games before.

But the game itself is amazing. the story, as not so great, is still better then about 90% of the games out there that claim they have some story.

The graphics are amazing. and yes, the cut scenes can get a bit on the long side. You can almost say that it is like a big budget movie using graphics for the sake of using them instead of having it help the gameplay.

Its not for everyone. You didn't enjoy it to the fullest. Well thats to bad. but I'm sure you have found many other games that some of us might not liking that you love. so its all about different taste for games.

-x