Five Cent Deposit

Someone (Yancey) mentioned that they thought Nirvana's Nevermind was produced poorly. I'll reserve my thoughts on that one until I see what he has to say... but he got me thinking and I was reminded of how unbelievably terrible Gish (Smashing Pumpkins) sounds. It's a real bummer as I think the music is great. And you can tell by the production on SP's follow-up albums that Gish really suffered at the hands of terrible engineers. Think of how amazing it *could* have been. Actually, when I think about it, many debut/early albums by some great bands have awful sound... what are your picks?

KnightLerxst

Metallica - Kill 'em all. Awful production, awful.

Five Cent Deposit

I knew I could count on you to chime in and mention one or more of the early Metallica albums... that's why I didn't. I'd rather have the response.

Also, I don't think that the next two albums (Lightning & Puppets) are "ruined", but they have pretty lame sound as well. They hit their stride (engineering-wise) with Justice.

Applejack

Not exactly what you wanted, but many people, including the band themselves, think that Weezer's Pinkerton is badly produced. I actually like it a lot and think it sounds great.

As far as Nevermind goes, I read that Kurt Cobain didn't like the way it was produced either. He thought that it was too polished (I kind of agree). He hired a different producer for In Utero, but wasn't happy with that either because he thought it was too rough sounding. Supposedly he had a different producer remix some of the songs, which ended up being the radio hits (ex: Heart Shaped Box, etc.) I haven't verified the accuracy of the article, but I think it is definitely possible.

KnightLerxst

I think Nevermind was very polished as well but I think that was a neccesity for the overly distorted style they were using. I mean even on the clearest mic you could not understand what the hell Cobain was saying. I remember a letter to Musician magazine in 92 calling Cobains verses "**** in mouth lyrics"

Add the overly distored guitar to the mix and there is no choice but to polish off the production so your can hear the music.

Ha I remember a local DJ coming out of a Bush song on a morning show going "wow even on cd it sounds distorted"

palebluedot

The album Spooky by Lush definitely comes to mind. The production is odd on this album because it is good in a sense that it creates a great euphoric moody ambience but it is bad because the vocals are completely buried and really detracts from it.

Yancey

My complaint about Nevermind's production primarily stems from what has been mentioned here -- how polished it was. That slickness probably is what got them airplay, but I think it concealed where the songs were really coming from. Andy Wallace is the one that is primarily to blame. He mixed the album and gave it that power-pop sheen that I think really clashed with the music. Add in DGC's choice of producer Butch Vig, now of Garbage fame, and you have too many hands working on the board, two of them who have no idea what punk rock is supposed to sound like.

In Utero was recorded by Steve Albini, of Big Black, Rapeman, Shellac fame, and he did his typical job. Microphones made to pick up specific frequencies (mostly Russian equipment) to get a full sound from the instruments (he might be the best man in the world at recording a drum kit, the thump he gets from a tom is amazing). His mixes always place the vocals low, everything else high. The band recorded the album in Minnesota and everyone was really happy with it. They were completely done in two weeks, mixed and everything. Geffen was upset, he didn't hear a single, it was too noisy. Supposedly pressure was placed on Cobain and there were PR leaks saying that Albini f**ked up the new Nirvana album. Grohl denies this. Krist says the original mix was too much. So Nirvana brought in Andy Wallace to remix several songs, including Heart Shaped Box, taking out what is supposedly a nasty, nasty guitar solo that killed the song. I have been trying to track down the original mix of In Utero, but it doesn't seem to be around the bootleg circuit.

Other albums with horrible production:

Stooges -- Raw Power. Bowie totally screwed it up (where's the bass David?) but the songs were fantastic enough to overcome.

Flaming Groovies -- Shake Some Action. Amazing album, terrible thin production.

The Rich Kids -- Ghosts of Princes in Towers. Glenn Matlock (the talented Sex Pistol) releases a great album with a new band, but there's no way to tell because it's all so murky. A waste.

dork

Supposedly Kurt Cobain wanted Bob Mould instead of Vig to produce. Mould jokes that had he produced it, Cobain would still be alive because he would never have become a star.

atlantamoi

Yancey, you clearly know what you are talking about just from this one post I have read from you. But, I really like the production on "Nevermind". I like that it's MUCH beefier sounding that any of their other recordings. I was put off by "In Utero" and never listen to that disc. Butch Vig also produced Freedy Johnston's "This Perfect World" which happens to easily be my fave Johnston recording. And I also like what he's done with Garbage.

I've never understood the appeal of Albini's touch. Maybe I don't know enough of the intricacies of his work. I bought Chevelle's disc that was produced by Albini and I feel like I like it in spite of his work. I guess I'm not a big fan of what sounds like everything being spread thin. Well, I do LOVE the song "Cables" from Big Black.

I like a lot of 70's punk like Wire's "Pink Flag" and Gang of Four's "Entertainment". These aren't necessarily "beefy" sounding albums, but they just sound so much better to me.

I think one of the biggest gripes I've ever heard for production on a recording is Marshall Crenshaw's "Field Day". I like that Cd, but Steve Lillywhite layed on the echo a bit much.

Jnuke

First thing that jumped to mind was Black Sabbath's Born Again album. Great, underrated songs, but really messed up by bass-heavy, muffled-sounding production.

Pikul

Love love love Robin Guthrie but he went a little too far, didn't he? Michael Hedges' job on Split further exposes his bungling. Lush wrote such great pop songs, and there are several on Spooky, yet it seemed like Guthrie wanted to hide that as much as possible.

I remember reading that. Was it in The Big Takeover? I couldn't help but think, "Wow". Then again, I recall that the record he produced for Magnapop sounded rather bright and almost more polished than Nevermind, but maybe Mould would've taken a different approach with Nirvana.

And, well, if Mould would have produced Nirvana, he would've had less time for Sugar. That wouldn't have been very good at all, I reckon.

B5Erik

Yeah, but you get used to it. I kind of like the production on Born Again now (not a lot, but it does have it's good points).

It's not as poorly produced as KISS' Hotter Than Hell album. They were trying to copy Black Sabbath's Master Of Reality sound, but no-one involved knew how the engineers got that Sabbath sound. So rather than CALL the engineer for some tips, they tried to fake it. OOOOooops. Muddy guitars, HORRIBLE drum sounds - bad production all around for an album that is actually a fan favorite!

Tscott

The album that pops into my mind is PJ Harvey's 'Rid Of Me'. Lots of great songs are buried in the (over)production.

Luckily she next released most of the raw 4-track demos from this album on a new album titled, oddly enough, '4-Track Demos'.

atlantamoi

Tscott, different strokes for different folks. I agree that "Rid of Me" could have been produced better... but for the exact opposite reason. Funny. I love her last 3 albums so much better than her earlier, less-produced releases.

Snake Plissken

Nirvana's "Nevermind". This is not the way band sounded. "In Utero" is better.

superspeck

Couldn't disagree with you more. IMHO, Ride the Lightning is one of the best sounding Metal albums ever. Production wise everything else went downhill from there, starting with ...And Justice for All. The "wall of sound" they had on RTL became a "cracked window" on their post Puppets releases.

They should have stayed in Europe.

Grimfarrow

Both Nevermind and Gish were produced by Butch Vig. He also produced Siamese Dream.

AtlDVD

Just about any Husker Du album sounds like it was recorded by a bunch of tone deaf amateurs - even though the actual music is great.

All of the Pre-1999 Guided By Voices albums - recorded on a lousy 4 track recorder - sound dreadful - but again great songs.

AtlDVD

All of the pre-1970's Rolling Stones albums sound pretty rough and were never cleaned up by good re-mastering.

Recent albums that sounded bad when released include Def Leppard's Pyromania - it was so compressed when it was first released it was horrible - since then its been redone.

Ky-Fi

I would put the Clash's "Cut the Crap" at the top of my list. This album is largely ingnored by most Clash fans, but I still hold that there's some great songs, meldodies and lyrics here---if they had just recorded Joe Strummer singing these songs with an acoustic guitar and no accompanyment it would have been a lot better.

benedict

Black Sabbath's Born Again with Ian Gillan had very poor production IMO. Tony Iommi reckons that the tapes remixed would have led to a great album but I remain unconvinced; particularly as the remastered CD is not noticeably better!

<small>The band kind of fell off the radar for me after that album for many years more or less as a result of the personal disappointment the album engendered. Ironically, once the band was gigging through the States some say that Gillan's rendition of Ozzy and RJ Dio material was excellent at many venues!</small>

Ha! Come back a day later, read the thread properly and see that Jnuke already beat me to it on that album!

cisgere

Tool - Opiate

superspeck

That may be the case with the albums, But the London Singles box set sounds fantastic.

On a related note, my Mom (63) bought The Beatles: One CD after George died because she read in the newspaper that Frank Sinatra thought Something was the most beautiful love song ever written. Anyway, she calls me and asks if there is a problem with her CD because the first half sounds like it was recorded in a garage! I know their early recording were released in mono (although in the documentary The Compleate Beatles George Martin says the recordings were direct "live" stereo). Has anyone else noticed this? My Beatle collection starts at Revolver. (Though I do have Past Masters I & II)

AtlDVD

Actually The BEatles - One is the best sounding remaster job of the beatles CDs (along with Yellow Sub Songtrack"

The first four albums were in mono - in fact all albums up to the White Album had completely different mono mixes.

I have the Mono Magical Myster Tour and mono Revolver and they sound quite different. The Beatles used to spend several days/weeks on the mono mixes and just a few hours on the stereo mixes.

dork

It was in some interview, I think, but I don't remember where now. But you're right, the more Sugar the better.