Hmm. Foxnews is reporting that MS only shipped 300,000 units. That's better than the Gamecube's Japanese launch, but fewer than the US PS2 launch. Sales have been brisk, from what I heard, but not the "sold out in minutes" frenzy of the PS2 launch.
Online retailers like Amazon and EBgames don't seem to be pushing the X-Box as hard as they pushed the PS2, also. I get e-mails from both, and I've received nothing about X-Box. I've also heard that stores have not been putting up large displays for X-Box in a lot of places.
What's your take?
BigDaddy
11-15-01, 04:05 PM
The stores I have been to Taget,Best Buy, Wal Mart ect all have stuff everywhere. I think the launch has been good. A lot of good games are out now and coming soon. I am happy as can be with HALO. :)
Naan
11-15-01, 04:06 PM
It's a little early to tell just yet. Response seems to vary from place to place. Some places seem to have sold out in minutes others still seem to have some units.
Xbox has a fairly solid line up of launch titles, at least from the prosepective of many genres represented on launch.
The real key will be how quickly MS can refill the supply chain once the initial units are gone.
The real time to ask would be early next week.
-Naan
darkside
11-15-01, 04:08 PM
The launch is good as far as moving the 300,000 consoles. Now we can see how the Xbox does the rest of the season.
Nosebleed
11-15-01, 04:53 PM
Well the EB in my town had both their front windows packed with Xbox systems, big boxes for the system and games, balloons etc. Tons of controllers and other accessories. No systems though. :( Canada seems to be pumping the Xbox big time. Just check out http://www.futureshop.ca to see what I mean (Future Shop is Canada's version of a Best Buy/Circuit City.) And I agree that it's a little too early to tell how the launch went, seeing as the day isn't even over and it's only 2PM on the west coast.
POWERBOMB
11-15-01, 05:18 PM
At the stores I've been to today, it seems to be a success, but not like the demand for the PS2. There wasn't much of a line outside the stores as the PS2 release had.
Naan
11-15-01, 05:24 PM
Let's also not forget that a lot of gamers probably expected a bad launch like PS2 had and preordered to make sure they got one.
-Naan
Groucho
11-15-01, 05:25 PM
Too early to tell, as others have mentioned. The true test of a system is not it's launch, but it's staying power. If word of mouth is good, the system will last...regardless of how well the launch went.
El Talon Del Monstruo
11-15-01, 05:28 PM
the Wal-Mart I worked at sold 40 units in 6 1/2 hours (employees were not allowed to buy any, per management)
Decker
11-15-01, 05:48 PM
Originally posted by Groucho
Too early to tell, as others have mentioned. The true test of a system is not it's launch, but it's staying power. If word of mouth is good, the system will last...regardless of how well the launch went.
True....to a point. It's a small fraction of the units that move at launch, but it can leave an impression. The frezny of the poorly-handled PS2 launch gave the system a must-have quality that (to steal a great line from the USA Today writer) made it cool to own a PS2 for almost a year even though there wasn't really anything cool to play on it (until GT3, anyways).
On the other hand, the underwhelming response to the Gamecube launch in Japan (which was, unfortunately just one or two days after 9/11) left developers and investors a little jittery about the system's future.
That said, I agree it's hard to tell much from the Xbox's launch, except that brand recognition in the product is high, and that there isn't the PS2-type frenzy yet (which really means nothing, actually; there certainly wasn't a frenzy for the PSX when it lauched).
Krug
11-15-01, 06:01 PM
Judging by the sets being auctioned on ebay, no, it hasn't been as great a success as PS2. Prices are below retail there. ;)
bubbleboy
11-15-01, 06:16 PM
It took about 4 hours for the my local kmart to sell out of Xbox. They had 30, no line I just walked in and asked for a system. It will be interesting to see GC launch in the next couple of days.
cubanx
11-15-01, 06:37 PM
Maybe someone could explain how a console "selling out" determines success? I would think a successful launch would be having enough console units for all your potential buyers so they can sell more of their real money makers ( Games and Accessories ).
They still charge retailers they same amount regardless of demand so I would think a shortage of consoles would actually hurt them as a potential buyer would look at other console options so I think they would not want this.
ScandalUMD
11-15-01, 06:42 PM
I wonder if that means that people are waiting for Gamecube, or if they're just uncomfortable putting out that kind of money on Christmas gifts this year.
Sony has ramped up PS2 production for the holidays, so all three console makers may end up eating some sh*t this holiday season.
ScandalUMD
11-15-01, 06:48 PM
Originally posted by cubanx
Maybe someone could explain how a console "selling out" determines success? I would think a successful launch would be having enough console units for all your potential buyers so they can sell more of their real money makers ( Games and Accessories ).
They still charge retailers they same amount regardless of demand so I would think a shortage of consoles would actually hurt them as a potential buyer would look at other console options so I think they would not want this.
If production can match demand, then something is wrong. With 300,000 launch units, they should sell out very quickly. Sony launched with 500,000, and that night they were over $500 on e-bay, because they were all gone.
People were offering me $400 for the PS2 when I was walking out of the store.
The fact that X-Box demand is not as high as PS2 demand mean the X-Box is doomed; there are two systems competing with it right now. But it does mean that X-Box doesn't have much of a chance of toppling the PS2. It can still beat down the Gamecube, and have a comfortable existence in second place, establish MS in the games market, and break even for them.
I'm rooting for the Gamecube, however, even though I won't be buying one. I like Nintendo, and we don't need someone like Microsoft trying to corner the games market by buying up developers.
bubbleboy
11-15-01, 06:59 PM
I think there is less disposable income this year then last. So people are holding off purchases longer. GC is $100 less then Xbox that will influence potential buyers (+ the 4 upcoming Resident Evil titles) especially in this economy.
I think that the Xbox launch is a sucess, there may not be the hype surrounding it like PS2 but in the long run the people who wanted a system got one that will go further then the animosity someone might hold aganist Sony for screwing up PS2 launch. Sony may be #1 now but it wasn't because of a sucessful PS2 launch. A sucessful launch would be better judged by the ratio of games sold to each system, this is where the $$$ is made.
Daryl
11-15-01, 07:03 PM
I think a key thing is that XBox is competing with a soon-to-be-released Gamecube and a still-hot PS2. What was the PS2's competition last year? A year-old (dying?) Dreamcast. The PS2 had a great window of opportunity where a lot of gamers were ready for "the next great thing". This year, the PS2 is still strong (IMO it's just hitting it's stride with GTA3, MGS, Smackdown3, etc.)- so people aren't necessarily ready to move on yet.
Having said that - I will happily have all three after Sunday!
Daryl
spacecowboy1
11-15-01, 08:04 PM
The fact that X-Box demand is not as high as PS2 demand mean the X-Box is doomed....I'm rooting for the Gamecube. ScandalUMD, you just don't get it do you? Is this all about one console "winning" over the other? Who cares about the "sold out in minutes" verbage? And whether or not the XBOX is being pushed by any particular vendor, who cares? There are over 300,000 people tonight who could care less about the non-ending dish of F.U.D. that you and your ilk continue to serve up despite a relatively successful XBOX launch.
ScandalUMD
11-15-01, 09:11 PM
Originally posted by spacecowboy1
ScandalUMD, you just don't get it do you? Is this all about one console "winning" over the other? Who cares about the "sold out in minutes" verbage? And whether or not the XBOX is being pushed by any particular vendor, who cares? There are over 300,000 people tonight who could care less about the non-ending dish of F.U.D. that you and your ilk continue to serve up despite a relatively successful XBOX launch.
A little over a year ago, I was going over and over whether I should go out and buy PS2 when the new Nintendo and the then only rumored X-Box might blow it out of the water a year later.
Sure, I was happy playing SSX and Tekken Tag, but the prospects that the PS2 might suffer the fate of the Dreamcast worried me. In two years, my PS2, or those 300,000 X-Boxes may be nothing more than very bad $300 DVD players. So I am certainly concerned with how a console sells.
One console DOES win, and that one gets the best games, first. The others get them later, or never. I was not a Sony fan before I bought PS2; I'd always gone with Nintendo. I looked at the situation, and I figured PS2 was the horse to bet on.
It's nice that some people have $800 to spend on video game hardware. I don't, so, unless there's a compelling reason, I will generally bet on one console, and I expect it to last me a while.
I don't think the X-Box launch was particularly successful. The PS2 shipped nearly twice as many units, and still sold out faster. The X-Box launch may have been relatively successful, considering the competition, and the economic downturn, but if that's not good enough to put X-Boxes in the most homes, then most of the best games will not be on X-Box in 2002 and 2003.
So those 300,000 people playing Halo may not care now, but in a few months, when there's nothing nearly as promising showing up in the forseeable future, and the X-Box has one tenth the user base of the PS2, maybe they'll care more.
I don't have anything against Microsoft, particularly. I'd love to play Halo and DOA 3. But, the fact is, X-Box took a big hit when Gamecube showed it up at E3, and this launch may be a second hit. There was nothing about this launch that makes me think that the X-Box will have the user base to attract the triple-A titles from the best developers.
I would think my reservations about the X-Box were confirmed rather than debunked by the launch. So those 300,000 people may be happy now, but I'm happy knowing I didn't waste my money on a console that was slow out of the gate when the competition has a year's head start.
And I could do without the name calling. If you have a different analysis of the X-Box launch, I'd be interested to hear it. Quite frankly, I kind of want to be convinced to buy a second system. But right now, neither Microsoft, Nintendo, nor any segment of the gaming press or community has offered any convincing arguments.
wedge
11-16-01, 12:24 AM
I felt it was something of a failure, locally at least. Last year PS2 was mammoth, sold out in minutes. Our Best Buy got around 70 Xbox units in and did not sell out the entire day. There are still some left now, after closing. I was completly surprised, I expected it to at least sell out, especially with as few as we got compared to the PS2 launch.
darkside
11-16-01, 12:30 AM
It definitely wasn't the same as the PS2 launch around here. The consoles sold out in hours instead of the few minutes it took the PS2.
However, as already posted the competition is much greater. Two people I spoke with said it wasn't even as crazy as the Dreamcast launch in their stores. My friend at Game Stop said they even had a few people show up to get Game Cubes. :lol:
It's still too early to tell though. We will have a much better idea of the winner this holiday season in January. One thing I heard at Game Stop and Game World from employees was the launch titles really hurting the Xbox. Most felt the demo's available didn't really help sales any. Mad Dash Racing, Cel Damage, NFL Fever, and Nascar Racing just didn't hold up to Rouge Squadron, Wave Race, and Luigi's Mansion on the Game Cube demo. Not to mention the rush they have had for MGS2 on the PS2.
The guys I talked with were not encouraged at all by the launch, but at the same time they figure a killer MSG2 type title here or there would really make a difference for the Xbox.
SirPablo
11-16-01, 12:40 AM
Here, judge on these numbers from my Target store in Minnesota...
Number of people waiting in line at 8 am: FOUR.
Number of units received: 24.
Number of units sold in the first hour: NINE.
Number of unit remaining at closing (10 pm): TWO.
Yeah, I think I think it went over like a fart in church. I sold 2 XBoxes after 4 pm. I had one person call asking about it. I had about 10 calls on the GC. I had roughly 10 people stop and converse with me about the GC.
I think the GC will be a much stronger seller. And one big reason, name recognition. That's why Nike sells so many shoes, that's why McDonald's sells so many hamburgers, and that's why Nintendo will sell so many systems.
Number one question about XBox: "Who makes it?" Not any sales material with Microsoft on it, like they are ashamed to admit they produced it.
My $.02.
bubbleboy
11-16-01, 12:41 AM
ScandelUMD,
Microsoft has never released an exact # of units manufactured for launch. The reality is the market can support 2 systems (SNES and Genisis and PS1 and N64). Both systems have had great titles and are sucessful.
Dreamcast had a great E3 two years ago. They had the most enjoyable games and Sony, well they had some good looking tech demos but not much else. E3 is really not an indication of future sucess. I think Nintendo had a great show but there jerks. They could careless about the older demographic. There games looked great but there not the kind of games I want to play.
I think Sony will be #1, but when your the favorite you supposed to sell out. They'll should be #1 but not becuase they had a sucessful launch, or a good E3, or because they were out a year early (i.e. Dreamcast). They'll be #1 becasue Sega and Nintedo dropped the ball 4 years ago with N64 and Saturn, and PS1 was the easier, simpler system.
Now Xbox is easier to work on with a simpler business model. They'll be #2 at least and there not going away (i.e. Dreamcast)
dgc
11-16-01, 12:54 AM
Originally posted by SirPablo
Here, judge on these numbers from my Target store in Minnesota...
Number of people waiting in line at 8 am: FOUR.
Number of units received: 24.
Number of units sold in the first hour: NINE.
Number of unit remaining at closing (10 pm): TWO.
Yeah, I think I think it went over like a fart in church. I sold 2 XBoxes after 4 pm. I had one person call asking about it. I had about 10 calls on the GC. I had roughly 10 people stop and converse with me about the GC.
I think the GC will be a much stronger seller. And one big reason, name recognition. That's why Nike sells so many shoes, that's why McDonald's sells so many hamburgers, and that's why Nintendo will sell so many systems.
Number one question about XBox: "Who makes it?" Not any sales material with Microsoft on it, like they are ashamed to admit they produced it.
My $.02.
Your $.02 ain't worth $.01:
I picked up mine at time square last night but out of curiosity I stopped at J&R Downtown NYC on my way to work. They had 200 units and sold out in 2 hours. It just depends what location your at. Perhaps One of them nice Trash-Co dumpsters isn't the best place to be selling gaming consoles. ;) j/k your dvdtalk profile location made it too easy.
belboz
11-16-01, 03:15 AM
At this point, this is still all just speculation. The 300K figure comes from "analyst estimates" which I've never seen actually attributed to any particular analysts by name. MS has repeatedly stated numbers significantly higher than that, but they've been a bit weasley about it by couching it in terms of total units they expect to ship by year end (1.1 to 1.5 M).
I expect that sometime in the next day or two, MS will release their "official" estimates about launch day sales. If they don't, I'd actually be somewhat worried as it would be a signal that perhaps they weren't that impressive. Of course, the same applies to the GC launch.
If we were to accept for the moment that the 300K figure is accurate, I can't see how this is anything but utterly embarassing for MS. Granted, there's the weakening economy, the competition from GC, and the recent tragedies; but still, only 300K units available at launch and apparently they've only had sporadic sell-outs? IIRC, DC had 300K in pre-orders alone. Sure, sales quickly tanked thereafter, but they had a successful launch.
Of course, that only goes to show that a "successful" launch doesn't guarantee long term success. And as others have mentioned, Sony's PSX launch was hardly spectacular and it went on to be the most successful game console ever.
porieux
11-16-01, 03:45 AM
Aren't there a lot of people who would never even consider buying an xbOx because that would mean doing business with micro$oft? That is certainly the case with me. It isn't even on my radar.
Mattalos
11-16-01, 04:22 AM
What I find comical: If the 300,000 units at launch proves true ... all year Microsoft (and Nintendo) were talking about avoiding the horrible launch that Sony had, saying they'd meet and/or exceed demands. But if I remember my pre-school math, 300,000 is 200,000 less than 500,000. What happened there, exactly fellas?
darkside
11-16-01, 06:47 AM
If I remember right the N64 set records when it was launched, the Dreamcast broke it, and the PS2 then broke that one. Granted the PS2 mark was pretty untouchable, but the Xbox launch is not encouraging after the launch success of the previous three consoles and I really don't expect the Gamecube to sell out very quick either.
The PSX didn't sell well at launch, but neither did the Saturn. The only competition was a very aging SNES. The situation for the XBox is very different. They have strong competition from the PS2 which is now hitting its stride, a bad economy thats hurting everyone, and their launching up against a very strong Nintendo brand name. This looks bad for MS, but they can certainly overcome it with the right games. I just hope the games are released in time.
If I was Microsoft I would be worried, but not panicked. They need to figure out what the A+ titles are and promote the heck out of them. Just look what FF VII did for the PSX and GT3 did for the PS2. One or two big games and they will be fine.
Here's my viewpoint. Over here, in Los Angeles/Orange County, the X-Box was widely available. Target, EB, Best Buy all had them in stock in the evening... and more than one salesman said they will be getting more early next week. No shortage, at least.
jeffdsmith
11-16-01, 08:09 AM
For those in the West Lafayette area looking for an Xbox, both Walmarts still have quite a few.
Everytime I call there to see if they are seliing the gamecube early (see planetgamecube.com) I get some dumb sales person that confuses the console with the xbox. At one point I was told "Yes! We are selling them right now! "(Last night) So of course I got all excited and clarified with her, "this is the GAMECUBE right?" at which point she stuttered and realized she was wrong... blah.
Cornemite
11-16-01, 09:16 AM
Originally posted by SirPablo
Here, judge on these numbers from my Target store in Minnesota...
Number of people waiting in line at 8 am: FOUR.
Number of units received: 24.
Number of units sold in the first hour: NINE.
Number of unit remaining at closing (10 pm): TWO.
Yeah, I think I think it went over like a fart in church. I sold 2 XBoxes after 4 pm. I had one person call asking about it. I had about 10 calls on the GC. I had roughly 10 people stop and converse with me about the GC.
I think the GC will be a much stronger seller. And one big reason, name recognition. That's why Nike sells so many shoes, that's why McDonald's sells so many hamburgers, and that's why Nintendo will sell so many systems.
There were 2 XBoxes. Now there are 2. How does that make for a "failed" launch?
I remember last year's PS2 launch. Fights, people getting systems stolen as they leave the store. Few systems availible between launch and Christmas. That's successful?
I see the GC launch going similarly to the X-Box launch. There may be some systems left over Monday, but by the time Tuesday rolls around, they'll all be gone. Of course, the black consoles will be gone within the first few hours. :)
You reference Nike here. I believe in an earlier post, I spoke of the Nike Air Jordan Retro XI Plus launch in March of this year. Like the Playstation 2, there was a lot of hype over these shoes. If you haven't seen them, they're Grey, a color never worn by Jordan himself. Nike didn't manufacture enough to go around, with many stores getting one pair in each size. When stores opened, people rushed the counters, practically throwing money at clerks. If you were lucky enough to get a pair, then you had to make it to your car without being mugged. Things were so crazy, that a mall in Sacremento was closed for the entire day due to fights and rioting over the shoes. Yeah, the Cool Grey Jordan launch was successful. They sold out. But many people were injured. All for a pair of shoes.
Sound familiar?
Maybe Nintendo and Microsoft learned something from Sony's mistake. There hasn't been the same amount of hype surrounding these machines as there were for the PS2. And they have plans to keep systems flowing through the supply chain for the holiday season.
Besides, as many people have noted, it's not how you start the race, it's how you finish it.
And, for the record, most of the places on the South Side of Chicago that I've visited (I had to go shopping for a LeapPad pro... my X-Box is still sitting in the box :( ) are down to 1-2 X-Boxes as well.
AgtFox
11-16-01, 09:54 AM
Originally posted by SirPablo
Here, judge on these numbers from my Target store in Minnesota...
Which store if I may ask Pablo? The one up by me had 10 X-Box's left but you had to ask for them evidentally. The person that worked there believed they also got 24, but because the demand was so low they put the boxes in the back figuring anyone who wanted it would ask for it. This was at about 7pm last night, they were also talking about getting more units in this morning.
Gromit
11-16-01, 11:32 AM
From that foxnews.com article:
Influential Morgan Stanley analyst Mary Meeker has suggested Microsoft could lose $1 billion on the Xbox by fiscal 2004 before breaking even, assuming the product sells well.
Ouch.
I'm not a Microsoft fan, but I don't think this is a failed launch. The bottom line is that Microsoft will sell enough XBoxes to establish a user base. It probably won't be near the PS2's number of users (at least for a long time), but who expected that with the PS2's one year head start?
Microsoft has invested a LOT of money in this thing and they have enough money to stick it out. While I don't want to see you guys who have invested in an XBox lose your investment, I admit, I'd wouldn't mind seeing it fail. That's just my dislike of Microsoft.
But, if I had bought one, I think I'd feel pretty confident. I just can't see Microsoft walking away from this thing.
Worst case scenario: the quote above turns out to be accurate, third party support dries up somewhat, the XBox becomes the third most popular gaming console.
Even under that scenario, I don't think XBox owners would feel like they were left out in the cold. Somehow, I think you'll get your $300 out of this thing, even if it's not around in 2003.
What I think will happen: The launch will be labelled as 'somewhat lackluster' mainly becuase it will invaribly be compared to the PS2 launch. Fanboy flamewars will reach an unprecedented level. Even so, a lot of XBoxes will sell, bringing those third party developers who have been holding back somewhat, out of the woodwork. XBoxers will be happy, but the machine won't be a smash hit in it's first year (in the eyes of analysts at least). Microsoft will rely on it's deep pockets to stick around and eventually, the machine will establish itself as a very successful console. Meanwhile, XBoxers are still happy.
Maybe I don't know enough about the video game industry, but that seems like a likely scenario to me.
I think the big question is whether or not there is room for 3 consoles. I keep hearing that based on past history, it just won't happen. If that turns out to not pan out and all 3 consoles survive (and thrive), then we as consumers win.
Do any of the big XBox fans want to see Microsoft with no competition? I hope not (and I doubt it). Realize that Microsoft wouldn't be selling this thing for $300 if they didn't feel that they have to.
dgc
11-16-01, 11:58 AM
Gromit,
I think your assessment is on target. I am a big fan of the xbox but also own N64 and PS2 and will probably get a Gamecube. I think the consumer definitely wins out when there is more competition. The consoles will improve, and the games will too. Fanboys that want to see their console eliminate the competition are ignorant as to what a "one console town" will do to the console gaming industry. Competetion in any industry promotes continuous improvement, stimulates new ideas and helps to keep the prices down.
Centurion
11-16-01, 12:12 PM
Originally posted by darkside:
If I was Microsoft I would be worried, but not panicked. They need to figure out what the A+ titles are and promote the heck out of them. Just look what FF VII did for the PSX and GT3 did for the PS2. One or two big games and they will be fine.You might be able to find those 1 or 2 big games from this list.
<font color=blue>Gamespot's XBOX games list</font> (http://gamespot.com/gamespot/filters/0,10850,6019665,00.html).
IC_Freeze
11-16-01, 12:22 PM
reasons for xbox low key launch
1) Down economy
2) Other concerns (war + terrorism)
3) GC launch pending
4) Down economy
5) Down economy
6) Job security -layoffs, etc
7) Down economy
porieux
11-16-01, 01:14 PM
Originally posted by Cornemite
You reference Nike here. I believe in an earlier post, I spoke of the Nike Air Jordan Retro XI Plus launch in March of this year. Like the Playstation 2, there was a lot of hype over these shoes. If you haven't seen them, they're Grey, a color never worn by Jordan himself. Nike didn't manufacture enough to go around, with many stores getting one pair in each size. When stores opened, people rushed the counters, practically throwing money at clerks. If you were lucky enough to get a pair, then you had to make it to your car without being mugged. Things were so crazy, that a mall in Sacremento was closed for the entire day due to fights and rioting over the shoes. Yeah, the Cool Grey Jordan launch was successful. They sold out. But many people were injured. All for a pair of shoes.
Wow, the human race never fails to completely amaze me with its stupidity. :rolleyes:
Which is, of course, why M$ is so successful...
ScandalUMD
11-16-01, 02:02 PM
Originally posted by dgc
Gromit,
I think your assessment is on target. I am a big fan of the xbox but also own N64 and PS2 and will probably get a Gamecube. I think the consumer definitely wins out when there is more competition. The consoles will improve, and the games will too. Fanboys that want to see their console eliminate the competition are ignorant as to what a "one console town" will do to the console gaming industry. Competetion in any industry promotes continuous improvement, stimulates new ideas and helps to keep the prices down.
Competition usually is good for consumers, but, in this market, competition splits the supply of games over several incompatible platforms. Consumers must either choose which games to do without, or buy three different analogous products, to the tune of $800.
Competition also doesn't necessarily keep the price down. The hardware prices are set at the highest level that the mass market will tolerate. At $299 you sell a lot more systems than you do at $399. Even if there is only one console on the market, if it fails to install a user base, it will die.
Nobody really only wants to see one console in town, but the conventional wisdom is that only two can be supported by the market. So one console is likely marked for death, regardless of how good competition may be for the consumer.
ScandalUMD
11-16-01, 02:13 PM
Originally posted by Cornemite
I remember last year's PS2 launch. Fights, people getting systems stolen as they leave the store. Few systems availible between launch and Christmas. That's successful?
Well, yes and no. Sony only managed to ship half a million units for launch. That was more than any console had ever launched with before, but it was still not enough to meet the huge demand for PS2 systems.
Many of those half million were sold as preorders months in advance. Store employees snapped up many of the rest, especially in stores that got low numbers in stock. At stores like Best Buy, where each location managed to get over 100 units, people lined up.
I lined up at one of them. They had 125 systems, and they started turning people away at 2:30 in the morning, 8 hours before the store opened.
Whatever wasn't sold pre-launch sold in minutes in most places. Sony continued to ship 100,000 units per week, but you still couldn't walk into a store and expect to find PS2 in stock until around March, after the October launch. Stores just couldn't keep them on the shelves.
Microsoft shipped somewhere from 200,000 to 300,000 units for X-Box launch, depending on your source. They had none of the problems of the PS2 launch. But this is not because Microsoft managed things better. It is because there simply was not the same frenzy for X-Box that existed for PS2.
Naan
11-16-01, 02:27 PM
FYI....if I remember correctly PS2 launch was supposed to 500,000, but only about 250,000 made it in time for launch. And that 100,000 a week was on a slow boat from Japan.
Here in Austin it was at least 2 weeks before most places got anymore past initial launch day.
How many consoles you make and sell on launch day doesn't mean squat. Word on the street and the ability to keep units in the supply chain will make all the difference in the world.
The road is long for MS. It will be hard to overcome a 100 million unit deficit that MS has to the PS1 and PS2 combined.
The critical time is what happens in the next few weeks.
-Naan
jeffdsmith
11-16-01, 02:28 PM
Originally posted by ScandalUMD
Well, yes and no. Sony only managed to ship half a million units for launch. That was more than any console had ever launched with before, but it was still not enough to meet the huge demand for PS2 systems.
Wrong. The N64 launched with 500,000 units in the US as well. I beleive the number may have been even more in Japan. Not certain on that though.
Irish
11-16-01, 02:44 PM
Gee. Sounds like Microsoft should just declare Chapter 11 now. I find it endlessly humorous that everyone debates the issue about PS2 vs GC vs XBox. I owned a Dreamcast (RIP). I still think in many ways the gameplay was better than PS2, but the company basically couldn't market its way out of a paper bag (or design a controller that didn't cripple you). My brother-in-law owns a PS2 and it's cool, but I opted to get an XBox, and I'm totally pleased. Let's all face it. There will never be JUST ONE system. This isn't Highlander. Everyone should enjoy what they have and respect the difference of opinions. Yes, Microsoft views itself as the big bully on the block. Sony likes to just stand by its name and talk about how great the PSOne is/was. Nintendo? No comment. Let's face facts. Microsoft is a smart company. They knew what they stood to lose before some Financial Bozo came up with his analysis. Bill Gates knows that he would rather capture every dollar available by keeping the market awash in XBoxs rather than have Bobby Ray sell one on Ebay for 2 times what he sells them for to the public. Does anyone consider WHY PS2 seemed so popular? Supply shortage maybe? Can you say Tickle-Me-Elmo? Sony isn't going anywhere. Microsoft isn't going anywhere. Nintendo will always be around in some form or another like SEGA. Hell I'm glad some friends have a PS2. It's nice to have some variety out there.
belboz
11-16-01, 03:00 PM
Originally posted by Naan
FYI....if I remember correctly PS2 launch was supposed to 500,000, but only about 250,000 made it in time for launch. And that 100,000 a week was on a slow boat from Japan.
Here in Austin it was at least 2 weeks before most places got anymore past initial launch day.
How many consoles you make and sell on launch day doesn't mean squat. Word on the street and the ability to keep units in the supply chain will make all the difference in the world.
I'm thinking you're mis-remembering it. Every press release I've seen from Sony indicates they had shipped 500K for North America launch day. They had initially promised 1M, but the official story is that component shortages forced them to cut that to 500K.
As to their resupply, the fact that they easily met their 1.5 million target for that quarter suggests they did indeed manage to make good on their promise of 100K units/week.
And while I agree that a weak launch doesn't necessarily doom you, I'm quite sure it doesn't help. Of course, we don't have good numbers on the XBox launch yet, so the jury is still out that.
Naan
11-16-01, 03:06 PM
Wouldnt surprise me that I remembered incorrectly. I knew they had made one prediction, and then only shipped half of that, but the actual numbers were a bit fuzzy.
-Naan
Gallant Pig
11-16-01, 03:08 PM
Originally posted by ScandalUMD
Competition also doesn't necessarily keep the price down. The hardware prices are set at the highest level that the mass market will tolerate. At $299 you sell a lot more systems than you do at $399. Even if there is only one console on the market, if it fails to install a user base, it will die.
What happened to NVIDIA's prices once they bought out 3dfx?
porieux
11-16-01, 03:10 PM
Originally posted by Irish
Gee. Sounds like Microsoft should just declare Chapter 11 now.
Sounds good to me; sell the assets and give the money back to the stockholders :D
ScandalUMD
11-16-01, 04:04 PM
Originally posted by Naan
FYI....if I remember correctly PS2 launch was supposed to 500,000, but only about 250,000 made it in time for launch. And that 100,000 a week was on a slow boat from Japan.
Here in Austin it was at least 2 weeks before most places got anymore past initial launch day.
How many consoles you make and sell on launch day doesn't mean squat. Word on the street and the ability to keep units in the supply chain will make all the difference in the world.
The road is long for MS. It will be hard to overcome a 100 million unit deficit that MS has to the PS1 and PS2 combined.
The critical time is what happens in the next few weeks.
No... You're remembering that the shipment was cut in half. They were planning to ship a million units, and only shipped 500,000. But PS2 definitely launched with 500,000 units.
As far as the 100,000 per week, a lot of them went straight to pre-orders that were unfilled on release day. Sony ended up shipping over a million by Christmas, but you still couldn't find them in most stores until March.
Word on the street helps, but the word on the street last year was that PS2 was the thing to own, and Microsoft is getting no such buzz this year. The fact is, games don't sell systems, hype does. Microsoft didn't have the hype going into the launch, and it's going to be hard to build it when the system didn't exactly make a grand entrance. The press response hasn't been particularly favorable either.
I think if MS trails by more than 250,000 units to Gamecube, after Christmas, it will never make up the difference.
ScandalUMD
11-16-01, 04:06 PM
Originally posted by jeffdsmith
Wrong. The N64 launched with 500,000 units in the US as well. I beleive the number may have been even more in Japan. Not certain on that though.
Are you sure about that? They would have flooded the shelves. N64 launched in early September, and didn't become super hot items until November.
Aghama
11-16-01, 04:11 PM
Originally posted by ScandalUMD
Word on the street helps, but the word on the street last year was that PS2 was the thing to own, and Microsoft is getting no such buzz this year. The fact is, games don't sell systems, hype does. Microsoft didn't have the hype going into the launch, and it's going to be hard to build it when the system didn't exactly make a grand entrance. The press response hasn't been particularly favorable either.
Regardless of how much money Microsoft spent on advertising, they definitely didn't have nearly the amount of hype that the PS2 did. I remember that even before the DC came out, magazines were comparing it to the PS2. It's my deep seated belief that the PS2 hype was a major factor in the early demise of the DC.
ScandalUMD
11-16-01, 04:19 PM
Originally posted by Irish
Gee. Sounds like Microsoft should just declare Chapter 11 now. I find it endlessly humorous that everyone debates the issue about PS2 vs GC vs XBox. I owned a Dreamcast (RIP). I still think in many ways the gameplay was better than PS2, but the company basically couldn't market its way out of a paper bag (or design a controller that didn't cripple you). My brother-in-law owns a PS2 and it's cool, but I opted to get an XBox, and I'm totally pleased. Let's all face it. There will never be JUST ONE system. This isn't Highlander. Everyone should enjoy what they have and respect the difference of opinions. Yes, Microsoft views itself as the big bully on the block. Sony likes to just stand by its name and talk about how great the PSOne is/was. Nintendo? No comment. Let's face facts. Microsoft is a smart company. They knew what they stood to lose before some Financial Bozo came up with his analysis. Bill Gates knows that he would rather capture every dollar available by keeping the market awash in XBoxs rather than have Bobby Ray sell one on Ebay for 2 times what he sells them for to the public. Does anyone consider WHY PS2 seemed so popular? Supply shortage maybe? Can you say Tickle-Me-Elmo? Sony isn't going anywhere. Microsoft isn't going anywhere. Nintendo will always be around in some form or another like SEGA. Hell I'm glad some friends have a PS2. It's nice to have some variety out there.
In the past, there have only been two successful consoles. If X-Box only manages to build the third largest base, Microsoft may decide to keep pouring money into it, to keep it alive, or they may abandon it. But even if they do, the third party support will probably be limited to ports.
As far as PS2 supply shortage, well, yeah, of course there was. But they supplied 200,000 more units on launch day than Microsoft did. There was no supply shortage of X-Box units because there was less demand for them. Unless a company just saturates the market with product, when you can walk into a store after work and buy a system on its launch day, it's probably not a good sign.
Nosebleed
11-16-01, 04:52 PM
Originally posted by ScandalUMD
In the past, there have only been two successful consoles.
SO WHAT? Does that mean for the rest of time there shall only be 2 consoles and if anyone dares to try to compete with the others, they shall die?
ScandalUMD
11-16-01, 05:02 PM
Originally posted by Nosebleed
SO WHAT? Does that mean for the rest of time there shall only be 2 consoles and if anyone dares to try to compete with the others, they shall die?
It means the market will only support two. It means that more than that fragments things too much, as far as who gets exclusive games, and such, and something has to give. If the market wouldn't support three consoles during a decade of economic expansion, I doubt it will now, during a recession. I think there's only room for two.
jeffdsmith
11-16-01, 05:12 PM
Originally posted by ScandalUMD
Are you sure about that? They would have flooded the shelves. N64 launched in early September, and didn't become super hot items until November.
Yes, I'm sure. Anyone care to confirm this with me?
darkside
11-16-01, 05:15 PM
In my area the N64 was sold out on launch day and set a record for fastest selling console at the time. It took me two months to finally get one. It was a very hot system due to the excitement over Mario 64. However, I can't say for sure that they had 500,000 for launch.
CaptainMarvel
11-16-01, 07:19 PM
I can afford neither the time nor the money to play any games right now, but for what it's worth, in Alabama at least, the X-Box seems to have gone over like gangbusters. The specialty gaming stores all sold out, the Wal-Marts all sold out in "about 12 minutes", and CompUSA sold out before noon.
CaptainMarvel
11-16-01, 07:30 PM
Originally posted by ScandalUMD
In the past, there have only been two successful consoles
In the past, there really weren't three companies as big as Nintendo, Microsoft, and Sony promoting their systems either. Sega has never really been that big of a home player... the Genesis was their only real hit. NEC's Turbografx just wasn't anywhere near as heavily promoted as the SNES and the Genesis, and the hardware was plainly inferior. Sega's Saturn was also poorly promoted, and it's lack of 3D capabilities made it get steamrolled by the Playstation and the N64.
Gromit
11-16-01, 10:22 PM
Originally posted by CaptainMarvel
I can afford neither the time nor the money to play any games right now, but for what it's worth, in Alabama at least, the X-Box seems to have gone over like gangbusters. The specialty gaming stores all sold out, the Wal-Marts all sold out in "about 12 minutes", and CompUSA sold out before noon.
It would be interesting if they released sales numbers by geographic region (down to the city level). I bet XBox sold especially well in most college towns (noticed you were in Tuscaloosa, thus the college town reference).
CaptainMarvel
11-16-01, 10:25 PM
Originally posted by Gromit
It would be interesting if they released sales numbers by geographic region (down to the city level). I bet XBox sold especially well in most college towns (noticed you were in Tuscaloosa, thus the college town reference).
That's an interesting question. I'm sure there probably IS a sales spike in college towns. I was actually referring to Birmingham, which isn't so much a college town- that's where I was last night.
Josh H
11-17-01, 09:45 AM
Originally posted by ScandalUMD
It means the market will only support two.
I don't agree with that, but if it works out that way, then X-box is the odd man out. PS2 already has a huge installed base, and will likely stay on top, and Nintendo has a big enough Niche market to ensure their success. So if only two will survive it will be PS2 and GC.
But like I said, I think all three will do fine
RoQuEr
11-17-01, 12:16 PM
Originally posted by CaptainMarvel
That's an interesting question. I'm sure there probably IS a sales spike in college towns. I was actually referring to Birmingham, which isn't so much a college town- that's where I was last night.
Actually my college town, which has some 80,000 residents, 55,000 of which are students, didn't sell out fast at all. I bought my unit from best Buy around noon. There is tons of hype about the Xbox, but few persons willing to put out the Ca$h
Buy: