Widescreen TV owners, how do you watch normal TV?

[Jericho]

Topic basically says it all, how do you watch 4:3 show or for that matter 4:3 movies. I'm a fairlly new widescreen TV owner, basically been using the full option which just stretches the picture out evenly. Have 3 other options with varying zooms and stretching, and of course the 4:3 with bars.

I haven't watched any movies in 4:3 yet, so I'm wondering what others think work best for them.

[cubanx]

If it's a Toshiba most people use Theatre Wide 2 stretch. I'm getting a smaller 4:3 HDTV myself as I can't get used to the gray bars on my Toshiba 65H80.

I'll reserve the big boy for just movies :)

[an68]

I use theaterwide 1 (keeps the center pretty much as 4:3 and slightly stretches the edges). After a few days you get used to it and I think it looks great.

[Janitor]

If it's just broadcast, I normally use a different TV. Some 4:3 DVDs (like the Python disks) I watch in "stretch" mode of the set (where it does most the stretching at the edges).

For 4:3 movies that shouldn't be messed with (like Casablanca), I just watch in "narrow" mode preserving the OAR, and living with the gray bars. BTW - I had no problem getting used to the gray bars.

Guess it depends on the specific source material.

[El Pollo]

Yeah, Theater Wide 1 on Toshibas is probably the mode to go with since it's a smooth stretch that leaves the center of the picture undistorted. TW2 is a zoom into the picture, so the top and bottom will be cut off.

[Xytraguptorh]

Like most Toshiba owners, I use Theaterwide 1 for normal TV. For 4:3 DVDs, my DVD player (JVC progressive scan) generates <i>black</i> bars on the sides of the image...so I just leave the TV in FULL. SO much better than tolerating the gray bars.

Anyway, for 4:3 TV, I think most people get used to the stretch mode. I can't even tell that it's distorted at all, unless I'm really looking for it. Also, you don't have to worry about the gray bars causing uneven wear on the CRTs.

[Jericho]

Thanks for the replies. I also have a Toshiba so I get the grey bars. Will give Theaterwide 1 a try for regular TV. still unsure of the grey bars in the 4:3 movies, but I guess its something you just get used to.

At least theaterwide 2 comes in handy for those non-anamorphic discs :)

[cdstewart2]

I, too have a Toshiba. I just got it a few weeks ago. I use the following (pretty much the consensus here):

Broadcast 4:3 (Buffy) = TheaterWide 1
Non-Anamorphic Movies & Broadcast Widescreen (Angel) = TheaterWide 2
Anamorphic Movies = Full
4:3 Movies (Night of the Living Dead) = Narrow Mode with Grey bars.

I will see the grey bars ONLY until my order of Duvetyne fabric (16 oz. blacker than black commando cloth) comes in. I'll be making 2 sets of Mattes out of foamcore covered with Duvetyne: 1 set for Narrow mode to hide the grey side bars, and 1 for source material that generates top/bottom black bars (i.e., 2.35:1 movies).

I'm getting my set ISF calibrated within the next couple weeks. I can't wait.

[Janitor]

Originally posted by Xytraguptorh
Like most Toshiba owners, I use Theaterwide 1 for normal TV. For 4:3 DVDs, my DVD player (JVC progressive scan) generates <i>black</i> bars on the sides of the image...so I just leave the TV in FULL. SO much better than tolerating the gray bars.

Anyway, for 4:3 TV, I think most people get used to the stretch mode. I can't even tell that it's distorted at all, unless I'm really looking for it. Also, you don't have to worry about the gray bars causing uneven wear on the CRTs.

Actually, while it's very cool that the JVC does output scaling, the black bars will wear your CRT(s) faster than the gray. Well - technically, the bars themselves don't wear out the CRT(s) - It's the difference between areas that cause the uneven wear (burn in). I only use the JVCs scaling for non anamorphic (widescreen) films.

And the stretch mode on the Toshhiba may work pretty well, but it's almost worthless on a Mits. Maybe not worthless, but the only thing I have to do to notice the distortion, is look at the screen. :)

[briank]

I have a Toshiba widescreen:

TW1: For broadcast tv.
TW2: non-anomorphic dvd
Full: anamorphic dvd and HDTV

[Movie_Man]

Mitsubishi owner

Standard: Anamorphic DVDs, Digital OTA
Stretched: 4:3 material - stretched at the edges, center is unchanged
Expand - letterboxed TV or non-anamorphic DVDs

[JsphOfArimethia]

So when talking about burn in, about how many years will it take to become a real problem?

I've been watching widescreen movies for years and years on a standard 4:3 tv, black bars and all. I've never, in my life, seen a tv with a burned in image. I've seen power transistors bust out, I've seen color transformers bust out, I've seen a lot of things happen to tvs. Been watching television since I was three. I've never seen a burn in.

So how many years? Before the gray bars, or the black bars, or the station logos, become a problem?:confused:

[cubanx]

Well before I become " Aware" of burn-in I got a Station logo burn on my old Toshiba 43H95 in about 1 year becuase I left the set in torch mode from the factory. Live and learn.

[Janitor]

Originally posted by JsphOfArimethia
*snip*

So how many years? Before the gray bars, or the black bars, or the station logos, become a problem?:confused:

While <i>any</i> CRT could get unevenly worn, the RPTVs have a much higher wear rate on their multiple CRTs. Much. In hometheaterspot, some people have reported burning in of logos after only weeks after leaving the contrast at 100% (default setting).

When I bought my Mits, the one on display had the store logo from their demo signal burned into it. I don't know how long it was up there playing, but this is a current model (55809) set and I don't think its been out all that long.

[Geofferson]

I have a Mitsubishi and view it in Stretch mode. Equivilant to TW1 for Toshiba's I presume.

[JsphOfArimethia]

First off, cubanx, Janitor, thanks.

Second, this may sound naive, but, why don't those who make televisions take steps to prevent this from happening? I mean it seems like it would be pretty simple to take care of, seeing as how most common computer monitors are capable of just this. Am I completely off on that?

[Janitor]

I'm not exactly sure what else the mfgrs could do, other than work hard on alternate technologies (like DLP). I <i>believe</i> one of the reasons that RPTVs tend to burn the way they do, is becauset the CRTs are driven so hard to use them as projection elements.

They (the mfgrs) <i>have</i> made a few attempts to slow the tendancy to burn in an RPTV display. The gray bars on many sets rather than black as an attempt smooth the average brightness edge to edge on the screen. Mitsubishi actually takes the 4:3 "window" (in narrow mode) and <i>very</i> slowly moves it back and forth to keep from getting those nice crisp edges at the sides of that "window".

Last I checked, a computer moniter can burn in just the same way as a direct view TV can. As an experiment - come up with a display that has a bright white dot in the middle of a black screen. Turn the wick up all the way on contrast, turn off your screen saver, and defeat the "greenscreen" powersaver stuff - then go on a nice, long vacation. Better yet - borrow a monitor to try this. :)

Part of the burn in problem is that (as it's been pointed out before) it's really not something burning into the phospher of the CRT. It's simply uneven wear of the CRTs. <u>All</u> CRTs wear out. Since it's a function of them wearing out, the issue is a cumulative one, and a matter of time. They don't <i>have</i> to wear unevenly - like all the guys running in "stretch" mode will help prevent that from happening at the edges - but they <i>will</i> wear.

Some external sources, like the JVC DVD player(s?) will run a screen saver if you leave it stopped but on for too long (10-15 minutes?). Also, if you leave them paused for a few minutes (2-3?) they'll start slowly dimming the display. This is far more like the way computer monitors are made "safe". The box you've hooked up to them (the computer) trys to protect them.

Boy - that post sure rambled. :)

[Xytraguptorh]

Originally posted by Janitor


Actually, while it's very cool that the JVC does output scaling, the black bars will wear your CRT(s) faster than the gray. Well - technically, the bars themselves don't wear out the CRT(s) - It's the difference between areas that cause the uneven wear (burn in). I only use the JVCs scaling for non anamorphic (widescreen) films.

And the stretch mode on the Toshhiba may work pretty well, but it's almost worthless on a Mits. Maybe not worthless, but the only thing I have to do to notice the distortion, is look at the screen. :)

The thing is, if you're like most DVD viewers, the number of 2.35:1 DVDs VASTLY outnumbers the number of 4:3 DVDs in your collection. Therefore, I actually think there's more of a risk of uneven wear when watching 2.35:1 movies...but I still refuse to distort the picture to fill my screen. I watch enough regular TV to compensate for it, I think. If a large percentage of my viewing was 4:3, then I'd definitely use the gray bars in NORMAL mode, but since it's relatively rare, I don't worry about it.

Is there really any reason to suspect that black bars when watching 4:3 material are any more damaging than black bars in 2.35:1 material? Anyway, I think most of set our contrast low enough that as long as we vary our viewing material, that it won't result in uneven CRT wear.

[Janitor]

Originally posted by Xytraguptorh


The thing is, if you're like most DVD viewers, the number of 2.35:1 DVDs VASTLY outnumbers the number of 4:3 DVDs in your collection. Therefore, I actually think there's more of a risk of uneven wear when watching 2.35:1 movies...but I still refuse to distort the picture to fill my screen. I watch enough regular TV to compensate for it, I think. If a large percentage of my viewing was 4:3, then I'd definitely use the gray bars in NORMAL mode, but since it's relatively rare, I don't worry about it.

Is there really any reason to suspect that black bars when watching 4:3 material are any more damaging than black bars in 2.35:1 material? Anyway, I think most of set our contrast low enough that as long as we vary our viewing material, that it won't result in uneven CRT wear.

Actually, I don't know about most DVD watchers, but yes - I do own more 2.35:1. But not as much more as you'd think. Out of roughly 270 titles in my meager library, 30-40 of them are 4:3 material. (Python, etc). Given tha't I don't see a problem watching with the gray bars, I leave them alone for this material.

Also - keep in mind that while I (and maybe you) don't really watch any broadcast 4:3 on these TVs, some people do.

And no - the horizontal black bars on a 2.35:1 display are no less damaging than the vertical ones on a 4:3 display. But I still rely on the gray bars to stem the tide. If nothing else - CRT wear is cumulative over time.

Fer instance - if you watch (with the black bars) :

4:3 10% of the time
2.35:1 30% of the time
1.85:1 60% of the time

It means that 40% of the time you're lighting up the entire surface of your CRTs <i>except for all four corners</i>. Turning down white level on your set will certainly slow this down. Not the unevenness itself, but the wearing out of the CRTs in general.

And - it's only slowing it down.. Wear is inevatible. May not be noticable in the time you own the TV, but it's there none the less.

[Xytraguptorh]

Yeah, that makes sense. I hadn't really thought about the fact that the four corners of the screen would be getting used the least.

On your Mitsubish, when you view TV with the gray bars, can you tell that the picture has shifted somewhat from one side to the other? On my Toshiba, it appears to never move. I realize that you can't actually see it move while you're watching it, but I thought maybe a gradual difference could be noticed. I emailed Toshiba and they said the TV does indeed support something called "orbital movement", so I guess the image just moves a tiny bit. I would think it would actually be best to have the image gradually move all the way to the edge of one side of the screen and then to the other side to ensure even wear, but I guess none of them do that (that I know of).

[JsphOfArimethia]

Thanks Janitor, and sorry Jericho if I've hijacked your thread too much. I have a few more things to say but I'll stop my curious george self from hijacking any further.:)

[Janitor]

Originally posted by Xytraguptorh
Yeah, that makes sense. I hadn't really thought about the fact that the four corners of the screen would be getting used the least.

On your Mitsubish, when you view TV with the gray bars, can you tell that the picture has shifted somewhat from one side to the other? On my Toshiba, it appears to never move. I realize that you can't actually see it move while you're watching it, but I thought maybe a gradual difference could be noticed. I emailed Toshiba and they said the TV does indeed support something called "orbital movement", so I guess the image just moves a tiny bit. I would think it would actually be best to have the image gradually move all the way to the edge of one side of the screen and then to the other side to ensure even wear, but I guess none of them do that (that I know of).

I never notice the movement, but there's <i>no</i> doubt that it has moved. I can't tell for sure how much the image has shifted, but it's <i>very</i> obvious that it's actually moved a few inches one way or the other.

[Janitor]

Originally posted by JsphOfArimethia
Thanks Janitor, and sorry Jericho if I've hijacked your thread too much. I have a few more things to say but I'll stop my curious george self from hijacking any further.:)

Thanks for providing (my) answers, or thanks for helping in the hijacking of the thread???

:)

PS - UR welcome.

[Hokie99]

I have had my Toshiba TW40X81 for almost 2 years now and I have just started to notice a small line (burn-in) from the gray bars on both sides from watching tv in 4:3.

I have since changed to watching normal television in TW2 since I noticed but does anyone know what I can do to fix this? Is this normal or do you think it might be covered under warranty?

Any suggestions?

[cubanx]

Burn in is not covered by warranty as its considered "user abuse" and not a design flaw even though the new 2002 Toshiba's include orbital movement in 4:3 mode. Really nothing you can do except wait for the screen to burn more evenly now that you use TW modes.

What has your contrast been set to?

[Stats]

Pioneer owner here.

I use Natural Wide (probably like Tosh's TW 2) to watch almost all regular TV.

But I use Zoom to watch WS shows (like ER), and also sometimes on ESPN or Fox football to prevent burn-in from static signals like ESPN's Bottomline or Fox's score/time bar.

I use 4x3 mode only to watch classic movies filmed in 4x3 (or 1.37:1 to be precise), like Casablanca.

[jfoobar]

The gray bars don't bother me in the slightest so that is how I watch 4:3 material. I have a Tosh 40H80.

[Hokie99]

JustinS,

that's what I was doing is watching tv in normal 4:3 mode with the gray bars, because it didn't bother me. Now I have slightly noticeable lines on each side of the screen.

Be careful watching tv in that mode, so that you don't get burn in like I did.

[matchpenalty]

I have a panny 34wx50 and I view 4:3 stuff in stretch mode. The tv also has an autodetect for signal type and will adjust for the input signal switching to 16:9 which is quite nice and the feature is for each individual input source.

[Mammal]

Stretch modes bother me, so I watch TV in Toshiba's zoom mode, Theaterwide 2. It's only TV, after all. For 4X3 movies I use the standard mode with gray bars.

By the way, one of the most delightful things about a 16x9 set is the ability to use zoom mode to convert "open matte" material to the proper aspect ratio.

[Xytraguptorh]

Originally posted by Mammal


By the way, one of the most delightful things about a 16x9 set is the ability to use zoom mode to convert "open matte" material to the proper aspect ratio.

I totally agree. Movies like Eyes Wide Shut and Death Race 2000 look great using THEATERWIDE 2.

[pedagogue]

For people with the panny 47" 16:9, how do you watch normal TV.....I am looking to pick this TV up in a few weeks, i think i can find a good deal on it, so I'd REALLY like some feedback. Thanks.

-pedagogue

[Foole]

Originally posted by Hokie99
I have had my Toshiba TW40X81 for almost 2 years now and I have just started to notice a small line (burn-in) from the gray bars on both sides from watching tv in 4:3.

I have since changed to watching normal television in TW2 since I noticed but does anyone know what I can do to fix this? Is this normal or do you think it might be covered under warranty?

Any suggestions?

I've had this same set for about 1.5 years and I watch all 4:3 material in TW1. It works well for anime I've found, since most animation by nature is exaggerated already...what's a little stretching? I never use Standard mode unless I wanna see a hot girl's true shape ;) ;) ;)

BTW, no burn at all in any mode.

My settings:
CONTRAST: 27
BRIGHTNESS: 45
COLOR: 60
COLOR TEMP: WARM
SHARPNESS: 40
TINT: 50

Give these a try. Experiment and see what works well for your eyes and protects the TV.

[baseballfan]

Originally posted by pedagogue
For people with the panny 47" 16:9, how do you watch normal TV.....I am looking to pick this TV up in a few weeks, i think i can find a good deal on it, so I'd REALLY like some feedback. Thanks.

-pedagogue

It depends. Most of the time I use the "Just" setting (more stretched on the edges, less so in the middle). Other times I'll use the "Zoom" which cuts off the top and bottom and zooms to fill the screen - obviously this is the setting to use for any broadcast TV that is in widescreen, such as West Wing. And infrequently I'll use the 4:3 mode.

Make sure you turn down the factory defaults, especially the "Picture" which is set at 100%.

[CitizenKaneRBud]

isn't zooming in on the picture to get rid of the bars on a widescreen TV just as bad as getting pan and scan titles on a regular title to get rid of the bars?

[stevevt]

Originally posted by CitizenKaneRBud
isn't zooming in on the picture to get rid of the bars on a widescreen TV just as bad as getting pan and scan titles on a regular title to get rid of the bars?

Pan and scan versions of widescreen movies don't get rid of bars, they get rid of some of the picture.

In the case of zooming on a widescreen tv for tv shows that have black bars, you're not getting rid of any of the picture, at least ideally.

[baseballfan]

Originally posted by CitizenKaneRBud
isn't zooming in on the picture to get rid of the bars on a widescreen TV just as bad as getting pan and scan titles on a regular title to get rid of the bars?

No.

In fact, that is the preferred way to watch a show broadcast in analog widescreen. Here's the choices on my Panny:

4:3 - this way you'd get gray bars on the sides and black bars on the top and bottom in the center portion. Ugh....

Full or Just: black bars on the top and bottom, and the picture stretched from side to side to fill the screen. Not really optimal.

Zoom: zooms in on the picture enough to fill the screen horizontally without any stretching. To do so the top and bottom get cropped, meaning no black bars. Result: Full screen 16X9 with no stretching of the image to fill the screen.