Better Tomorrow 1 and 2
08-14-01, 03:58 AM
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Better Tomorrow 1 and 2
Many years ago I watched Better Tomorrow 1 and 2, with English dub. I didn't understand the movies at all, but thought the action scenes were cool.
I bought the DVDs this summer simply because I have interest in the early work of John Woo. I watched the two movies subsequently today, with the Cantonese soundtrack on and English subtitles. I was pleasantly surprised.
The story is more involving than I had remembered, and realized that the English dub had completely ruined the experience first time around. Every single grunt from an actor's original throat, every syllable, every word, is a bonus. There are some cheesy explosions and sometimes the sound FX isn't believable in the first movie, (the punches are too loud) - but the sound FX is excellent in the second one, especially when one of the major characters grabs a samurai sword and slashes some bad guys who carry meak pistols.
Those movies are a great cinematic experience. The character development is deep, involving and beautiful. Every main character is three dimensional and relationships of brotherhood and friendship are explored in a touching way. I was surprised to notice, in between the bloodshed, how meaningful the dialogue and moments of glances were, and how enhanced the experience was by listening in Cantonese. I have discovered that dubs distract more from the overall experience than subs.
Those movies are highly recommended for anyone who wants to have a moving action flick experience. Only if John Woo would or could start exploring character development again, instead of focusing so much on technique and cool action sequences. Everyone knows John Woo is a genius, it seems, but a pretty misunderstood genius, I think. What made the HK flicks special was that you really cared for each of the good guys, as they struggle with internal, interpersonal and outside problems in every scene, and sometimes with all of the problems at the same time. John Woo is Shakespeare of HK action.
On other HK John Woo movies:
While not for everyone, Bullet in the Head is also a great movie about friendship and loyalty, greed and goodness. It's "Dear Hunter" meets "Better Tomorrow".
Hardboiled is a fun action flick.
The Killer is a masterpiece.
I bought the DVDs this summer simply because I have interest in the early work of John Woo. I watched the two movies subsequently today, with the Cantonese soundtrack on and English subtitles. I was pleasantly surprised.
The story is more involving than I had remembered, and realized that the English dub had completely ruined the experience first time around. Every single grunt from an actor's original throat, every syllable, every word, is a bonus. There are some cheesy explosions and sometimes the sound FX isn't believable in the first movie, (the punches are too loud) - but the sound FX is excellent in the second one, especially when one of the major characters grabs a samurai sword and slashes some bad guys who carry meak pistols.
Those movies are a great cinematic experience. The character development is deep, involving and beautiful. Every main character is three dimensional and relationships of brotherhood and friendship are explored in a touching way. I was surprised to notice, in between the bloodshed, how meaningful the dialogue and moments of glances were, and how enhanced the experience was by listening in Cantonese. I have discovered that dubs distract more from the overall experience than subs.
Those movies are highly recommended for anyone who wants to have a moving action flick experience. Only if John Woo would or could start exploring character development again, instead of focusing so much on technique and cool action sequences. Everyone knows John Woo is a genius, it seems, but a pretty misunderstood genius, I think. What made the HK flicks special was that you really cared for each of the good guys, as they struggle with internal, interpersonal and outside problems in every scene, and sometimes with all of the problems at the same time. John Woo is Shakespeare of HK action.
On other HK John Woo movies:
While not for everyone, Bullet in the Head is also a great movie about friendship and loyalty, greed and goodness. It's "Dear Hunter" meets "Better Tomorrow".
Hardboiled is a fun action flick.
The Killer is a masterpiece.
Last edited by Sleeper; 08-14-01 at 04:10 AM.
08-14-01, 09:49 AM
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To put it more simply, Woo sold out to Hollyweed. That's all there is to it. His HK films were wonderful, his Hollyweed films, pure puerile schlock. Fun, but totally mindless and totally unbelievable.
08-14-01, 07:17 PM
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for the most part i agree with jafuf. woo's hollywood movies haven't even come close to touching his hong kong gems. i think the closest he came was with Face/Off, which had incredible action and at least explored some issues of family and loyalty, but was hampered by a pretty ridiculously contrived plot.
08-14-01, 07:51 PM
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A Better Tomorrow 1 and 2 are awesome movies. I refuse to watch any HK movie in dub so I can't comment on the dub. 
Yeah, I miss some of Woo's great films of the past. Bullet in the Head remains one of my favorite films of all time. Woo's new films aren't bad and stuff... but yeah, its nothing compared to his older stuff. HollyWoo ;P
Face/Off was an awesome though. I liked it a lot. One of my fav american action flicks.
But ultimately its all this flash and special effects that help to sell a film in the US. And money is what these companies (and Woo) wants, so I don't really see a return to the old Woo.
Yeah, I miss some of Woo's great films of the past. Bullet in the Head remains one of my favorite films of all time. Woo's new films aren't bad and stuff... but yeah, its nothing compared to his older stuff. HollyWoo ;P
Face/Off was an awesome though. I liked it a lot. One of my fav american action flicks.
But ultimately its all this flash and special effects that help to sell a film in the US. And money is what these companies (and Woo) wants, so I don't really see a return to the old Woo.
08-17-01, 02:20 AM
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Originally posted by Pants
I want to buy the Anchor Bay version of a better tommorrow part one. How do I know it is the one with the correct soundtrack.
I want to buy the Anchor Bay version of a better tommorrow part one. How do I know it is the one with the correct soundtrack.
08-30-01, 11:36 PM
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Out of curiosity, what's the plot like on ABT2? I saw the trailer for it and it looks nearly the same as ABT (which I did see). Is it significantly different? I think ABToo is supposed to be a parody or satire or ABT (haven't seen that either), but the trailer for that one didn't look particularly funny either.
any info would be appreciated.
Bullet in the Head is a real masterpiece. I've rented most of the Megastar versions around here and those are the ones I'm picking up from hivizone as well.
Tuan Jim
any info would be appreciated.
Bullet in the Head is a real masterpiece. I've rented most of the Megastar versions around here and those are the ones I'm picking up from hivizone as well.
Tuan Jim
08-31-01, 12:00 PM
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08-31-01, 01:11 PM
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Two points:
1) The 10 second sound drop in ABT1 isn't as bad as it sounds (pun intended)! It occurs very early in the movie, during a dream sequence, and almost seems like an "unusual" artistic choice. Don't worry; it won't ruin the movie. Which brings me to point 2...
2) Just for kicks I sampled some of the dubbed version of ABT1. That does ruin the movie! Forget about the problem of lesser actors trying to imitate great HK actors, the dialogue has been completely re-worked so that the voices will match-up to some extent with the mouth movements. As a result, the MEANING of the words has been changed willy-nilly.
Just watch the scene where the older brother (can't remember the actor, sorry) confronts CYF after CYF's fall from grace. All of the emotion, all of the depth, all of the meaning of the dialogue has been drained away just so that the sentences could be kept short enough to fit in the actor's mouths! UNBELIEVABLE! Do not under any circumstances watch the dubbed versions of these flicks!
1) The 10 second sound drop in ABT1 isn't as bad as it sounds (pun intended)! It occurs very early in the movie, during a dream sequence, and almost seems like an "unusual" artistic choice. Don't worry; it won't ruin the movie. Which brings me to point 2...
2) Just for kicks I sampled some of the dubbed version of ABT1. That does ruin the movie! Forget about the problem of lesser actors trying to imitate great HK actors, the dialogue has been completely re-worked so that the voices will match-up to some extent with the mouth movements. As a result, the MEANING of the words has been changed willy-nilly.
Just watch the scene where the older brother (can't remember the actor, sorry) confronts CYF after CYF's fall from grace. All of the emotion, all of the depth, all of the meaning of the dialogue has been drained away just so that the sentences could be kept short enough to fit in the actor's mouths! UNBELIEVABLE! Do not under any circumstances watch the dubbed versions of these flicks!
