The Idiots (Idioterne) vcd ?
07-01-01, 10:10 PM
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I was going to post this question here:
http://www.dvdtalk.com/forum/showthr...hreadid=106896
but decided to start a new thread since the discussion that started there of The Idiots was off topic. I'll post the info from that post below.
I was wondering if anyone has or has seen the vcd of The Idiots? The reason I ask is because it is sold on eBay and is advertised as being uncut. The import NTSC disc available is cut. The PAL disc is uncut, but I don't have PAL capabilities. I asked the people at Scarecrow if they sold the vcd, but they don't. They do have a copy for rent though. They confirmed for me that it is indeed uncut.
I have never seen a vcd before. I know the quality probably won't be as good as dvd, but I was wondering if anyone can comment on the quality of this particular vcd. I know that USA Films is supposed to someday release an R1 version, but I think that the version they released on vhs was edited. Actually from what the guy at Scarecrow said, I think it was more edited than the import NTSC dvd. I have never seen the film before, so would like to see it in its entirety. As long as the quality isn't too bad, I may get the vcd just in case the "eventual" USA Films version is censored. Maybe I'd get that one too for picture quality.....who knows?
Any info is greatly appreciated. I have been trying to decide what to do for a few weeks and decided to finally just ask here.
posts pertaining to The Idiots from the above link:
http://www.dvdtalk.com/forum/showthr...hreadid=106896
but decided to start a new thread since the discussion that started there of The Idiots was off topic. I'll post the info from that post below.
I was wondering if anyone has or has seen the vcd of The Idiots? The reason I ask is because it is sold on eBay and is advertised as being uncut. The import NTSC disc available is cut. The PAL disc is uncut, but I don't have PAL capabilities. I asked the people at Scarecrow if they sold the vcd, but they don't. They do have a copy for rent though. They confirmed for me that it is indeed uncut.
I have never seen a vcd before. I know the quality probably won't be as good as dvd, but I was wondering if anyone can comment on the quality of this particular vcd. I know that USA Films is supposed to someday release an R1 version, but I think that the version they released on vhs was edited. Actually from what the guy at Scarecrow said, I think it was more edited than the import NTSC dvd. I have never seen the film before, so would like to see it in its entirety. As long as the quality isn't too bad, I may get the vcd just in case the "eventual" USA Films version is censored. Maybe I'd get that one too for picture quality.....who knows?
Any info is greatly appreciated. I have been trying to decide what to do for a few weeks and decided to finally just ask here.
posts pertaining to The Idiots from the above link:
Cleopatra Jones
Member
Registered: Sep 2000
It's good to hear that The Celebration might make it out this year. Both the Celebration and the Idiots were announced for release last fall (I'd pre-ordered them both), and both were abruptly cancelled. Any thoughts as to when the Idiots might make it to DVD?
Richard Malloy
Member
Registered: Sep 2000
I was just as disappointed as you with those cancellations. I've been watching for any release news since then, and unfortunately there is still no word regarding a region 1 DVD of THE IDIOTS.
If I could have my wish, Criterion would pick this one up for a completely uncensored, 2-disc set including the docu The Humiliated and (space and rights issues permitting) also Lars from 1-10 and The Name of this Film is Dogme-95.
A guy can dream!
I purchased the Region 0 Fejui release of THE IDIOTS that's available (still?) from scarecrow.com for about $45 shipped, and is the only DVD of this film available to Region 1. It's a decent transfer and the subtitles are actually fairly accurate (though rife with typos). The original stereo sound was inexplicably remixed into 5.1, but sounds good across the front. The rear channels are bogus (essentially sending L and R front signals back there), but are easily fixed by turning down/off your surround channels.
But the damn thing's censored. I wonder if we'll ever get a completely uncensored version in the States?
It seems that any shot containing a penis was censored in this release. And that's too damn bad as the 'naughty bits' in THE IDIOTS are crucial to the emotional and psychological development of the characters and the story. No, I suppose you don't have to see the biker actually holding Jeppe's penis as he takes a leak, but the tension of that scene is greatly diminished IMO when you don't. And, no, I suppose you don't have to see the entire gang-bang for the following scene of very tender lovemaking to be effective in its jarring juxtaposition. But if you've never seen THE IDIOTS, I think the impact would be considerably lessoned by viewing the censored version, even when you know what you're supposed to be seeing.
Aw hell, I guess I'm glad I got it - how else am I supposed to watch it in my home theater? By paying even more for the VHS version (which I understand is also censored)?
Cleopatra Jones
Member
Registered: Sep 2000
Richard, I bought the Fejui release as well -- from Ebay no less (but for less than $45). I wish I had known that it was edited, and the movie feels tonally off after the Party. Von Trier is such an interesting director (altho not as succesful as he might think), and it is too damned odd that an acclaimed work could dissapear from the release lists with nary a word about why.
And while I'm at it, earlier von Trier works like Zentropa (pls pay special attention to the transfer of this one) need to be on DVD.
Philadelphia is the closest place to me for art house fare, so I missed George Washington too, but would snap it up in a heartbeat on DVD.
Richard Malloy
Member
Registered: Sep 2000
"Tonally off"
That's a very good description of the censored version.
I forgot to mention at least one other censored scene I noticed: when Stoffer freaks out after the representative from the city council tries to move them to a new site, there are several large excisions of shots showing him chasing after the car (nude from the waist down) and of the Idiots trying to calm him down (again, nude from the waist down). I think Fejui simply censored every penis shot in the film.
And since you don't see the full measure of Stoffer's freak-out, the reaction the next day (the doom and gloom and general unease that's settled in) doesn't seem quite so justified. It seems 'tonally off'.
In fact, now that I think about it, anybody got anything to trade for a penisless Idioterne DVD? If you happen to be put off by penises, but you wanna know what the fuss is all about, then this is the version for you!
Cleo, I've been hoping that Criterion might go after some of those other early von Trier's ever since they were able to land The Element of Crime. Europe/Zentropa is certainly my favorite of those, but the von Trier that I really favor is from Kingdom I on (Breaking the Waves, Idioterne, Kingdom II, Dancer in the Dark). In fact, with the possible exception of Wong Kar-Wai, I can't think of any other contemporary director who so consistently blows me away with each successive film. But we might need Criterion to step in if we're ever gonna see a completely uncensored version of IDIOTERNE in region 1.
lostatmidnight
Senior Member
Registered: Jun 2000
Did anyone happen to pick up the Region 0 version of The Celebration? I've been thinking about buying it for a few months but I haven't read opinions about it--transfer (though I know it wouldn't be fantastic because of its digital nature and lighting, ect.) and subtitles...Scarecrow has it and there a few sellers on eBay who have it as well. Anybody know? Thanks.
Cleopatra Jones
Member
Registered: Sep 2000
This is interesting.
Scarecrow Video appears to have The Idiots for sale, and it doesn't look like the HK version. See here: http://www.scarecrow.com/News/titles/title_00174.htm No hints, though, as to whether this is an edited version or no. Can anyone else provide any insights?
The celebration is also listed for sale: http://www.scarecrow.com/News/titles/title_00172.htm
Richard Malloy
Member
Registered: Sep 2000
Cleo, that's the same "cover" they had advertised at Scarecrow when I purchased the same Fejui disc you have.
The Fejui cover features a mischievious looking von Trier slyly chuckling into his hand, while a handsome Asian man in the upper left corner (just beneath the Fejui corporate logo) presides regally with a crown upon his head, a sceptor in one hand, a bright red apple from which a single bite has been taken in the other, looking not unlike the Hong Kong version of Crazie Eddie from the furniture discount warehouse.
Altogether, it doesn't quite inspire the same level of consumer confidence as the Criterion banner.
But if Scarecrow has a different regionless IDIOTERNE disc from the one they sent me - one bearing the cover advertised and uncensored to boot - then I demand a frickin' exchange!
But I sorta doubt it. At the very least, Scarecrow should disclaim the censored nature of this disc, and especially if they presume to be catering to the cineaste crowd.
Cleopatra Jones
Member
Registered: Sep 2000
Sorry Richard, I'd forgotten that you'd already said that you'd gotten your copy from Scarecrow. Plus, I'd gotten thrown off because the cover of the Scarecrow version is different than the one I bought -- that cover has once of the outdoor scenes from the movie and is kinda ugly.
Oh well, it isn't as interesting a discovery as I thought!
Member
Registered: Sep 2000
It's good to hear that The Celebration might make it out this year. Both the Celebration and the Idiots were announced for release last fall (I'd pre-ordered them both), and both were abruptly cancelled. Any thoughts as to when the Idiots might make it to DVD?
Richard Malloy
Member
Registered: Sep 2000
I was just as disappointed as you with those cancellations. I've been watching for any release news since then, and unfortunately there is still no word regarding a region 1 DVD of THE IDIOTS.
If I could have my wish, Criterion would pick this one up for a completely uncensored, 2-disc set including the docu The Humiliated and (space and rights issues permitting) also Lars from 1-10 and The Name of this Film is Dogme-95.
A guy can dream!
I purchased the Region 0 Fejui release of THE IDIOTS that's available (still?) from scarecrow.com for about $45 shipped, and is the only DVD of this film available to Region 1. It's a decent transfer and the subtitles are actually fairly accurate (though rife with typos). The original stereo sound was inexplicably remixed into 5.1, but sounds good across the front. The rear channels are bogus (essentially sending L and R front signals back there), but are easily fixed by turning down/off your surround channels.
But the damn thing's censored. I wonder if we'll ever get a completely uncensored version in the States?
It seems that any shot containing a penis was censored in this release. And that's too damn bad as the 'naughty bits' in THE IDIOTS are crucial to the emotional and psychological development of the characters and the story. No, I suppose you don't have to see the biker actually holding Jeppe's penis as he takes a leak, but the tension of that scene is greatly diminished IMO when you don't. And, no, I suppose you don't have to see the entire gang-bang for the following scene of very tender lovemaking to be effective in its jarring juxtaposition. But if you've never seen THE IDIOTS, I think the impact would be considerably lessoned by viewing the censored version, even when you know what you're supposed to be seeing.
Aw hell, I guess I'm glad I got it - how else am I supposed to watch it in my home theater? By paying even more for the VHS version (which I understand is also censored)?
Cleopatra Jones
Member
Registered: Sep 2000
Richard, I bought the Fejui release as well -- from Ebay no less (but for less than $45). I wish I had known that it was edited, and the movie feels tonally off after the Party. Von Trier is such an interesting director (altho not as succesful as he might think), and it is too damned odd that an acclaimed work could dissapear from the release lists with nary a word about why.
And while I'm at it, earlier von Trier works like Zentropa (pls pay special attention to the transfer of this one) need to be on DVD.
Philadelphia is the closest place to me for art house fare, so I missed George Washington too, but would snap it up in a heartbeat on DVD.
Richard Malloy
Member
Registered: Sep 2000
"Tonally off"
That's a very good description of the censored version.
I forgot to mention at least one other censored scene I noticed: when Stoffer freaks out after the representative from the city council tries to move them to a new site, there are several large excisions of shots showing him chasing after the car (nude from the waist down) and of the Idiots trying to calm him down (again, nude from the waist down). I think Fejui simply censored every penis shot in the film.
And since you don't see the full measure of Stoffer's freak-out, the reaction the next day (the doom and gloom and general unease that's settled in) doesn't seem quite so justified. It seems 'tonally off'.
In fact, now that I think about it, anybody got anything to trade for a penisless Idioterne DVD? If you happen to be put off by penises, but you wanna know what the fuss is all about, then this is the version for you!
Cleo, I've been hoping that Criterion might go after some of those other early von Trier's ever since they were able to land The Element of Crime. Europe/Zentropa is certainly my favorite of those, but the von Trier that I really favor is from Kingdom I on (Breaking the Waves, Idioterne, Kingdom II, Dancer in the Dark). In fact, with the possible exception of Wong Kar-Wai, I can't think of any other contemporary director who so consistently blows me away with each successive film. But we might need Criterion to step in if we're ever gonna see a completely uncensored version of IDIOTERNE in region 1.
lostatmidnight
Senior Member
Registered: Jun 2000
Did anyone happen to pick up the Region 0 version of The Celebration? I've been thinking about buying it for a few months but I haven't read opinions about it--transfer (though I know it wouldn't be fantastic because of its digital nature and lighting, ect.) and subtitles...Scarecrow has it and there a few sellers on eBay who have it as well. Anybody know? Thanks.
Cleopatra Jones
Member
Registered: Sep 2000
This is interesting.
Scarecrow Video appears to have The Idiots for sale, and it doesn't look like the HK version. See here: http://www.scarecrow.com/News/titles/title_00174.htm No hints, though, as to whether this is an edited version or no. Can anyone else provide any insights?
The celebration is also listed for sale: http://www.scarecrow.com/News/titles/title_00172.htm
Richard Malloy
Member
Registered: Sep 2000
Cleo, that's the same "cover" they had advertised at Scarecrow when I purchased the same Fejui disc you have.
The Fejui cover features a mischievious looking von Trier slyly chuckling into his hand, while a handsome Asian man in the upper left corner (just beneath the Fejui corporate logo) presides regally with a crown upon his head, a sceptor in one hand, a bright red apple from which a single bite has been taken in the other, looking not unlike the Hong Kong version of Crazie Eddie from the furniture discount warehouse.
Altogether, it doesn't quite inspire the same level of consumer confidence as the Criterion banner.
But if Scarecrow has a different regionless IDIOTERNE disc from the one they sent me - one bearing the cover advertised and uncensored to boot - then I demand a frickin' exchange!
But I sorta doubt it. At the very least, Scarecrow should disclaim the censored nature of this disc, and especially if they presume to be catering to the cineaste crowd.
Cleopatra Jones
Member
Registered: Sep 2000
Sorry Richard, I'd forgotten that you'd already said that you'd gotten your copy from Scarecrow. Plus, I'd gotten thrown off because the cover of the Scarecrow version is different than the one I bought -- that cover has once of the outdoor scenes from the movie and is kinda ugly.
Oh well, it isn't as interesting a discovery as I thought!
