Indian Cinema [PART 4]
#2
DVD Talk Legend
Re: Indian Cinema [PART 4]
One of Nicholas Ray's finest!
As far as the other Ray goes, the MoC disc of Abhijan is very nice. The two AE collections are not exactly reference quality transfers, but totally watchable and, considering the shape the source materials are in, probably the best these films will look. I'd like to put in a hearty recommendation for Second Run's R2 edition of Rat-Trap, an unsettling, atmospheric Indian film whose apparent initial inscrutability begs repeat viewings.
As far as the other Ray goes, the MoC disc of Abhijan is very nice. The two AE collections are not exactly reference quality transfers, but totally watchable and, considering the shape the source materials are in, probably the best these films will look. I'd like to put in a hearty recommendation for Second Run's R2 edition of Rat-Trap, an unsettling, atmospheric Indian film whose apparent initial inscrutability begs repeat viewings.
#3
DVD Talk Gold Edition
Thread Starter
Luck By Chance (Hindi - 2009)
Luck by chance, eh? Well, I say it's nothing of that sort. I'll tell you what it is...skill and talent from team Akhtar (debut director Zoya, her brother and lead actor Farhan, and papa and writer/lyricist Javed). I actually received my order for LET THE RIGHT ONE IN today and rather inexplicably I opted to watch LUCK BY CHANCE instead of the highly acclaimed LET THE RIGHT ONE IN...and I don't regret that decision one single bit. This story - a behind the scenes look at the film industry - is certainly nothing new under the sun. Setting that aside, I thought the entire 2 hour and 35 minute runtime of this film was executed to perfection. It was amusing, moving, entertaining, engaging, and all good. Lead actor Farhan Akhtar (ROCK ON!!, and the director of DIL CHAHTA HAI and the DON re-make) and lead actress Konkona Sen Sharma do very well as two unknowns trying to find success in Bollywood. Hrithik Roshan - in a guest role (somewhat of a fictional offshoot of himself) - has significant screentime in the very early portions of the film. And supporting actress Isha Sharvani nearly steals the show in the second half. A number of supporting actors do well in the other roles and the cameos/guest appearances from a host of Bollywood stars are integrated very well. Don't be fooled though, LUCK BY CHANCE is a rather grounded and natural film - at least not anywhere near the over-the-top Bollywood-fest you might expect from all the famous guest stars. The song and dance was somewhat limited but I enjoyed the music quite a bit and it was incorporated very well into the film. The romantic angle to the film was also handled nicely and felt real, not like the usual artificiality of most Bollywood films. Though I wasn't as impressed as others when it came to brother Farhan's directorial debut - DIL CHAHTA HAI - the consensus was that he struck gold with that film. Well, I'll put forth that sister Zoya Akhtar has surpassed her brother...I'll label LUCK BY CHANCE a modern classic of Indian cinema. Though the year is still early, when all is said and done, I really cannot foresee it not being my top pick for 2009. I can't quite believe it myself that I have nothing negative to say.
Luck by chance, eh? Well, I say it's nothing of that sort. I'll tell you what it is...skill and talent from team Akhtar (debut director Zoya, her brother and lead actor Farhan, and papa and writer/lyricist Javed). I actually received my order for LET THE RIGHT ONE IN today and rather inexplicably I opted to watch LUCK BY CHANCE instead of the highly acclaimed LET THE RIGHT ONE IN...and I don't regret that decision one single bit. This story - a behind the scenes look at the film industry - is certainly nothing new under the sun. Setting that aside, I thought the entire 2 hour and 35 minute runtime of this film was executed to perfection. It was amusing, moving, entertaining, engaging, and all good. Lead actor Farhan Akhtar (ROCK ON!!, and the director of DIL CHAHTA HAI and the DON re-make) and lead actress Konkona Sen Sharma do very well as two unknowns trying to find success in Bollywood. Hrithik Roshan - in a guest role (somewhat of a fictional offshoot of himself) - has significant screentime in the very early portions of the film. And supporting actress Isha Sharvani nearly steals the show in the second half. A number of supporting actors do well in the other roles and the cameos/guest appearances from a host of Bollywood stars are integrated very well. Don't be fooled though, LUCK BY CHANCE is a rather grounded and natural film - at least not anywhere near the over-the-top Bollywood-fest you might expect from all the famous guest stars. The song and dance was somewhat limited but I enjoyed the music quite a bit and it was incorporated very well into the film. The romantic angle to the film was also handled nicely and felt real, not like the usual artificiality of most Bollywood films. Though I wasn't as impressed as others when it came to brother Farhan's directorial debut - DIL CHAHTA HAI - the consensus was that he struck gold with that film. Well, I'll put forth that sister Zoya Akhtar has surpassed her brother...I'll label LUCK BY CHANCE a modern classic of Indian cinema. Though the year is still early, when all is said and done, I really cannot foresee it not being my top pick for 2009. I can't quite believe it myself that I have nothing negative to say.
#6
DVD Talk Special Edition
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,004
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: Indian Cinema [PART 4]
#7
DVD Talk Gold Edition
Thread Starter
Hey nitin, as far as languages the only one I know is English, and if you want to count it then maybe the teeniest bit of Spanish...at least enough to get the gist of things when they speak Spanish in old Hollywood Westerns and film-noir movies. And if we are talking language skills when it comes to reading DVD specs then I'm most certainly multi-lingual...knowing how to say "subtitles" and "English" in more languages...ha, ha, ha! And yes, when the subs on these Indian rentals, as they can be every so often, are of questionable quality - like in DELHI-6 - that makes it a little more difficult.
I really liked Antara Mali in MAIN MADHURI DIXIT...but I guess we all know Indian cinema is not a meritocracy. The "royal families" of Indian cinema basically control it all. If you outshine them, like say Manoj Bajpai did to Amitabh Bachchan in AKS, then you sort of get blackballed back into your place. Since I just watched DELHI-6 I was happy to see Atul Kulkarni in a small role in that movie. He is an excellent actor but all he gets are small supporting parts. Even Rajpal Yadav was great in MAIN MADHURI DIXIT but no one is giving him lead roles in any of the comedies. In Hollywood you can make a financially successful movie even without big name actors, but in India, if you don't have Shahrukh, Salman, Aamir, Hrithik, Akshay Kumar, Sanjay Dutt, Sr. or Jr. Bachchan, Ajay Devgan, etc., then it can be a bit of a crapshoot even if you make a good movie. As for actresses in India, that is an even bigger joke, they are entirely disposable...it's always easy to find another pretty face. Actually in LUCK BY CHANCE there is even a brief line of dialogue early on that says the same thing. It is during a scene in an acting class and the instructor is telling the class what you need to be a "hero" in Hindi movies, and then a girl asks what about for actresses, and the instructor sort of brushes it off with a dismissive "yeah, they need those things too" response.
I really liked Antara Mali in MAIN MADHURI DIXIT...but I guess we all know Indian cinema is not a meritocracy. The "royal families" of Indian cinema basically control it all. If you outshine them, like say Manoj Bajpai did to Amitabh Bachchan in AKS, then you sort of get blackballed back into your place. Since I just watched DELHI-6 I was happy to see Atul Kulkarni in a small role in that movie. He is an excellent actor but all he gets are small supporting parts. Even Rajpal Yadav was great in MAIN MADHURI DIXIT but no one is giving him lead roles in any of the comedies. In Hollywood you can make a financially successful movie even without big name actors, but in India, if you don't have Shahrukh, Salman, Aamir, Hrithik, Akshay Kumar, Sanjay Dutt, Sr. or Jr. Bachchan, Ajay Devgan, etc., then it can be a bit of a crapshoot even if you make a good movie. As for actresses in India, that is an even bigger joke, they are entirely disposable...it's always easy to find another pretty face. Actually in LUCK BY CHANCE there is even a brief line of dialogue early on that says the same thing. It is during a scene in an acting class and the instructor is telling the class what you need to be a "hero" in Hindi movies, and then a girl asks what about for actresses, and the instructor sort of brushes it off with a dismissive "yeah, they need those things too" response.
#8
Member
Join Date: May 2007
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 70
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: Indian Cinema [PART 4]
flixtime - you are very lucky to have viewed all the latest movies on DVD even before they get an official DVD release. I don't see any retailer selling Delhi-6 or Luck By Chance.
#10
DVD Talk Gold Edition
Thread Starter
dvd_freak...DELHI-6, LUCK BY CHANCE, and a lot of the stuff I cover here I'm watching via "pre-release" rentals from my local shop. Granted the picture quality varies to a great degree as does the quality of the English subtitles. I'm not overly particular when it comes to A/V quality, but I have a feeling there's no way a lot of the other fellows around here would subject themselves to such inferior technical presentations. I'm fine with it though, and can't complain much when we are talking a buck or two per rental. Yes, I'm most definitely happy about having access to a local shop where I can get this sort of stuff, as opposed to blind buying the official DVD. Indian cinema is way too hit or miss in quality. If some think my meltdowns over a bad movie a bit over-the-top now, I can't imagine what they'd be like if I actually dropped twenty bucks on it. And even at a dollar per rental, I've still felt ripped off when it comes to some of the movies I haven't liked. Basically, whichever movies I end up liking, I purchase when the official DVD comes out. So, for example, whenever LUCK BY CHANCE comes out officially on DVD, then I'll pick it up for my collection. If you live anywhere near a major metropolitan area, I'd guess it wouldn't be too hard to find yourself a place to pick up these rentals - if you have no objections to the idea. A lot of times you can't tell from the outside of the shops, but even a small Indian grocery store might have movies for rent. Actually I've found the same with other ethnic grocery shops too, problem being - unlike Hindi films - they don't usually put English subtitles on their movies.
toddly, uh-oh now I really feel under the gun, especially after you disliked YAMADONGA so much. And I might be in the hole with nitin too since he didn't like JAB WE MET (and I gave it an enthusiastic review here). Sure hope you end up liking LUCK BY CHANCE. For what it's worth I did get a chance to watch LET THE RIGHT ONE IN, and if I had to re-watch either LUCK BY CHANCE or LET THE RIGHT ONE IN tomorrow, I'd go with LUCK BY CHANCE. And before anyone miscontrues my labelling LUCK BY CHANCE with the term "modern classic", I mean that in the sense that if I were programming an Indian movie channel akin to TBS or TNT here in the U.S., then LUCK BY CHANCE is a movie I'd pick up for heavy rotation.
Some of the Hindi films I'm considering for the near future:
DEV.D - director Anurag Kashyap (BLACK FRIDAY, NO SMOKING), the trailer and plot description (hip and contemporary version of DEVDAS) are doing absolutely nothing for me, I have a feeling I'm not going to like it
TAHAAN - from cinematographer turned director Santosh Sivan, this movie got edged out by TAARE ZAMEEN PAR for India's most recent Oscar submission
BOMBAY TO BANGKOK - from director Nagesh Kukunoor, somehow this slipped under my radar, it was released a fair time ago and met with mediocre reviews, but I think I'll give it a chance
JAANE TU YA JAANE NA - because it's a high-profile release from last year, and I've been avoiding it for too long
BACHNA AE HASEENO - same reason, high-profile release that I've been avoiding
VICTORY - maybe, if nothing else is available at the time
I really need to catch up on some Tamil stuff. And I'm skipping BILLU BARBER since I've already watched the so-so Tamil version, and I have a feeling the Hindi version will not be an improvement.
toddly, uh-oh now I really feel under the gun, especially after you disliked YAMADONGA so much. And I might be in the hole with nitin too since he didn't like JAB WE MET (and I gave it an enthusiastic review here). Sure hope you end up liking LUCK BY CHANCE. For what it's worth I did get a chance to watch LET THE RIGHT ONE IN, and if I had to re-watch either LUCK BY CHANCE or LET THE RIGHT ONE IN tomorrow, I'd go with LUCK BY CHANCE. And before anyone miscontrues my labelling LUCK BY CHANCE with the term "modern classic", I mean that in the sense that if I were programming an Indian movie channel akin to TBS or TNT here in the U.S., then LUCK BY CHANCE is a movie I'd pick up for heavy rotation.
Some of the Hindi films I'm considering for the near future:
DEV.D - director Anurag Kashyap (BLACK FRIDAY, NO SMOKING), the trailer and plot description (hip and contemporary version of DEVDAS) are doing absolutely nothing for me, I have a feeling I'm not going to like it
TAHAAN - from cinematographer turned director Santosh Sivan, this movie got edged out by TAARE ZAMEEN PAR for India's most recent Oscar submission
BOMBAY TO BANGKOK - from director Nagesh Kukunoor, somehow this slipped under my radar, it was released a fair time ago and met with mediocre reviews, but I think I'll give it a chance
JAANE TU YA JAANE NA - because it's a high-profile release from last year, and I've been avoiding it for too long
BACHNA AE HASEENO - same reason, high-profile release that I've been avoiding
VICTORY - maybe, if nothing else is available at the time
I really need to catch up on some Tamil stuff. And I'm skipping BILLU BARBER since I've already watched the so-so Tamil version, and I have a feeling the Hindi version will not be an improvement.
#11
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Richmond, MA
Posts: 357
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: Indian Cinema [PART 4]
I've been waiting for a legimimate dvd release of DASAVATHAARAM since seeing the trailer for this last June. Any heads up as to when and where one might purchase this film? http://www.galatta.com/tamil/movies/dasavathaaram/
#12
DVD Talk Special Edition
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,004
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: Indian Cinema [PART 4]
flixtime,
well then I admire how many bollywood movies you do see, because as you say there is way more miss than hit generally.
and dont worry about being in a hole, these movies are those I've been meaning to watch for ages for various reasons. And I already know I wont care much for most of them due to my tastes, but will make my way through most of them hoping at least 1 or 2 agree with me
well then I admire how many bollywood movies you do see, because as you say there is way more miss than hit generally.
and dont worry about being in a hole, these movies are those I've been meaning to watch for ages for various reasons. And I already know I wont care much for most of them due to my tastes, but will make my way through most of them hoping at least 1 or 2 agree with me
#16
DVD Talk Ultimate Edition
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 4,128
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
#17
DVD Talk Ultimate Edition
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 4,128
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: Indian Cinema [PART 4]
dvd_freak...DELHI-6, LUCK BY CHANCE, and a lot of the stuff I cover here I'm watching via "pre-release" rentals from my local shop. Granted the picture quality varies to a great degree as does the quality of the English subtitles. I'm not overly particular when it comes to A/V quality, but I have a feeling there's no way a lot of the other fellows around here would subject themselves to such inferior technical presentations. I'm fine with it though, and can't complain much when we are talking a buck or two per rental. Yes, I'm most definitely happy about having access to a local shop where I can get this sort of stuff, as opposed to blind buying the official DVD. Indian cinema is way too hit or miss in quality. If some think my meltdowns over a bad movie a bit over-the-top now, I can't imagine what they'd be like if I actually dropped twenty bucks on it. And even at a dollar per rental, I've still felt ripped off when it comes to some of the movies I haven't liked. Basically, whichever movies I end up liking, I purchase when the official DVD comes out. So, for example, whenever LUCK BY CHANCE comes out officially on DVD, then I'll pick it up for my collection. If you live anywhere near a major metropolitan area, I'd guess it wouldn't be too hard to find yourself a place to pick up these rentals - if you have no objections to the idea. A lot of times you can't tell from the outside of the shops, but even a small Indian grocery store might have movies for rent. Actually I've found the same with other ethnic grocery shops too, problem being - unlike Hindi films - they don't usually put English subtitles on their movies.
#18
DVD Talk Gold Edition
Thread Starter
Since we sort of got into it a bit already, let me vent a little in regard to LET THE RIGHT ONE IN:
Anyway, I realize everyone (except me and toddly) thinks that the movie is a masterpiece, so don't get too bent out of shape by my blowing off some steam...it's just meant as water-cooler talk amongst friends.
Spoiler:
Anyway, I realize everyone (except me and toddly) thinks that the movie is a masterpiece, so don't get too bent out of shape by my blowing off some steam...it's just meant as water-cooler talk amongst friends.
#19
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Richmond, MA
Posts: 357
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: Indian Cinema [PART 4]
Okay, I'm still confused...I thought the title of this forum was INDIAN FILMS Part 4. Saying this, I did find Flixtime's critical summary of this Norwegian film thought-provoking.
The so-called 'cat sequence' really spooked me out. And I'm sure there was hiddend "Indian" theme in there somewhere.
The so-called 'cat sequence' really spooked me out. And I'm sure there was hiddend "Indian" theme in there somewhere.
#20
DVD Talk Gold Edition
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: currently Philly originally from Puerto Rico
Posts: 2,893
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: Indian Cinema [PART 4]
wow. great contribution there and we got it the first time, you don't have to mention to it a second time or a third, no one cared the first time nor the second and specially not the third. This is international talk, which means that at any one time if there are more contributors/talkers that you can count on one hand then is a good thing. why are you so bent out of shape. I didn't know you were a mod , so welcome, didn't realize Mao wasn't the only one for International. So what if its an Indian thread, the movie was mentioned in passing and flix was nice enough to post a his thoughts on a spoiler tag since it was mentioned no big deal, you don't have to click the button. is a film discussion @ International. your lucky that there are more than 3 active threads at any one time. if you really have a problem contact a mod and they will split the post into a new thread but really for what, the same people that replied here would have replied there, 3 posts here 3 posts there. no biggie, move on.
I haven't gotten a chance to watch let the right one in yet but I will eventually pick it up. It played in one of the local theaters for a while (couple of weeks) but I've been too busy to check it out. Same goes without saying that a lot of the indian films of late that would interest me I haven't gotten a chance to check any of them out but when it comes to indian cinema I'm more picky due to the demand of time each one requires plus i find that some films loke good the first 20 minutes and then it turns to something completely different after the credits.
I haven't gotten a chance to watch let the right one in yet but I will eventually pick it up. It played in one of the local theaters for a while (couple of weeks) but I've been too busy to check it out. Same goes without saying that a lot of the indian films of late that would interest me I haven't gotten a chance to check any of them out but when it comes to indian cinema I'm more picky due to the demand of time each one requires plus i find that some films loke good the first 20 minutes and then it turns to something completely different after the credits.
Last edited by BuddhaWake; 03-16-09 at 06:36 AM.
#21
Member
Join Date: May 2007
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 70
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: Indian Cinema [PART 4]
dvd_freak...DELHI-6, LUCK BY CHANCE, and a lot of the stuff I cover here I'm watching via "pre-release" rentals from my local shop. Granted the picture quality varies to a great degree as does the quality of the English subtitles. I'm not overly particular when it comes to A/V quality, but I have a feeling there's no way a lot of the other fellows around here would subject themselves to such inferior technical presentations. I'm fine with it though, and can't complain much when we are talking a buck or two per rental. Yes, I'm most definitely happy about having access to a local shop where I can get this sort of stuff, as opposed to blind buying the official DVD. Indian cinema is way too hit or miss in quality. If some think my meltdowns over a bad movie a bit over-the-top now, I can't imagine what they'd be like if I actually dropped twenty bucks on it. And even at a dollar per rental, I've still felt ripped off when it comes to some of the movies I haven't liked. Basically, whichever movies I end up liking, I purchase when the official DVD comes out. So, for example, whenever LUCK BY CHANCE comes out officially on DVD, then I'll pick it up for my collection. If you live anywhere near a major metropolitan area, I'd guess it wouldn't be too hard to find yourself a place to pick up these rentals - if you have no objections to the idea. A lot of times you can't tell from the outside of the shops, but even a small Indian grocery store might have movies for rent. Actually I've found the same with other ethnic grocery shops too, problem being - unlike Hindi films - they don't usually put English subtitles on their movies.
Piracy is a huge issue when it comes to Bollywood DVDs and these pre-releases are nothing more than pirated movies (I think). Here is an article on Bollywood and DVD Piracy, you may find it interesting.
Bollywood DVD Piracy
#22
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Richmond, MA
Posts: 357
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: Indian Cinema [PART 4]
wow. great contribution there and we got it the first time, you don't have to mention to it a second time or a third, no one cared the first time nor the second and specially not the third. This is international talk, which means that at any one time if there are more contributors/talkers that you can count on one hand then is a good thing. why are you so bent out of shape. I didn't know you were a mod , so welcome, didn't realize Mao wasn't the only one for International. So what if its an Indian thread, the movie was mentioned in passing and flix was nice enough to post a his thoughts on a spoiler tag since it was mentioned no big deal, you don't have to click the button. is a film discussion @ International. your lucky that there are more than 3 active threads at any one time. if you really have a problem contact a mod and they will split the post into a new thread but really for what, the same people that replied here would have replied there, 3 posts here 3 posts there. no biggie, move on.
I haven't gotten a chance to watch let the right one in yet but I will eventually pick it up. It played in one of the local theaters for a while (couple of weeks) but I've been too busy to check it out. Same goes without saying that a lot of the indian films of late that would interest me I haven't gotten a chance to check any of them out but when it comes to indian cinema I'm more picky due to the demand of time each one requires plus i find that some films loke good the first 20 minutes and then it turns to something completely different after the credits.
I haven't gotten a chance to watch let the right one in yet but I will eventually pick it up. It played in one of the local theaters for a while (couple of weeks) but I've been too busy to check it out. Same goes without saying that a lot of the indian films of late that would interest me I haven't gotten a chance to check any of them out but when it comes to indian cinema I'm more picky due to the demand of time each one requires plus i find that some films loke good the first 20 minutes and then it turns to something completely different after the credits.
#23
DVD Talk Gold Edition
Thread Starter
dvd_freak, appreciate your taking the time to link that article. Yes, I'm familiar with Dawood Ibrahim and the criminal tentacles embedded in the Indian film industry. I do realize a number of my rentals might be of questionable authenticity. At the same time, from what I gather, the official DVDs and the companies that put them out can be questioned too, and there is a dubious aspect to how some of them might do business too. I suspect whether it be my one dollar rental, or my purchase of a fifteen dollar official DVD, or my attending a theater showing, there is no way to prevent things really because of the strong hold by organized crime on every aspect of the Hindi film industry. At the same time, while I do appreciate and in many ways agree with the point you are making, I feel that utilizing these "rental copies" is far removed from any proximate cause as to aiding those intent on doing misery in this world. And besides, for eight years I dutifully paid taxes to a government run by war criminals, and I purchased gasoline from a bunch of treasonous war profiteers, and I benefitted from a mainstream media who turned a blind eye to everything...and I really didn't do a whole lot about it. So on the final scoreboard I think that my dollar Indian rentals are spit in the ocean when compared to all the support I gave to a not entirely different criminal regime right here in the good ole U.S. of A.
#24
Member
Join Date: May 2007
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 70
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: Indian Cinema [PART 4]
flixtime - thanks for taking time to read the article. Your point is well taken. On a different note - Ghajini (Hindi version) DVD is finally out and the image quality is pretty good.
#25
DVD Talk Gold Edition
Thread Starter